Salt Rising Bread
I have only very recently heard about this bread. Everyone who tastes it raves on about it and I wish to try my hand at it. However after reading up on it I'm not so sure anymore. It's basically a leuconostoc risen bread. Risen purely with bad bacteria which causes food poisoning and gas gangrene. The starter stinks to high heaven to-boot.
An excerpt from wiki...
"One of the main rising agents, the bacterium Clostridium perfringens, is a common cause of food poisoning and can cause enteritis necroticans (pig-bel disease) and gas gangrene. Although disease-causing strains of C. perfringens have been isolated from salt-rising breads, there is no indication of salt-rising bread having ever caused any human disease. The baking process appears to reduce bacteria to safe levels.[1]"
And may I point out the words... "The baking appears APPEARS to reduce bacteria to safe levels".
My question is this... SERIOUSLY! People eat this bread?
My next question is how and why did anyone ever think this was fine to eat in the first place. We know today that it's ok to eat but when they were first making this bread they didn't know this. Who was the first person who smelled the so called starter and said "yup, that's smells ok to make bread with"?
What if I do it wrong and poison myself?
After all of the above... this recipe has caught my eye and once you've answered my questions, alleviated my concerns and I've gotten over the yuck factor, perhaps i'll try my hand at this...
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/salt-rising-bread-recipe
it sounds vile to me - in the same category as marmite, celery and american 'chocolate' (which tastes like baby puke to most people right-side of the pond due to the way the milk is treated during manufacture)
But I guess someone somewhere must have been desperate enough to try it ... I have thought about giving it a try though - my concerns wouldn't be the baked bread but the starter - that's the one that's going to harbour the nasties - don't taste that and wash-up thoroughly afterwards ...
-Gordon
I once decided to try and find a taste for marmite because they say it's healthy. Needless to say I couldn't find one.
But even if everything goes very well and I bake a successful loaf will I be able to eat it after using a starter like that? Could I disassociate the starter to the final bread?
And you have made a very good point about utensils when making this bread. Rubber gloves would be handy too.
But after all this... I'm curious!
American chocolate is now among the best in the world. Yes, it was terrible in the past, but ever since Scharffenberger, artisan craft chocolate making in the U.S. has exploded. No one can keep up with it. In the International Chocolate Awards held just a couple weeks ago, U.S. chocolatiers won 36 awards; UK chocolatiers won 20, but who's counting.
A few of my favorites:
http://michaelmischerchocolates.com/our_chocolates/
https://www.dandelionchocolate.com/
https://www.recchiuti.com/
http://www.oliveandsinclair.com/
http://www.dicktaylorchocolate.com/
http://www.lilliebellefarms.com/
https://www.askinosie.com/
There's a world of difference between high-end chocolates for competitions and domestic quality.... I doubt very much that US posh chocolate uses soured milk that the generic stuff uses - especially in-front of an international judging panel!
However this has got me thinking - US domestic chocolate tastes & smells like baby sick to Europeans due to the way the milk is treated. It probably tastes & smells the same way to US folks, but as they eat it from an early age it's natural. AIUI, it's attributed to butyric acid - a product of anaerobic fermentation of milk and I'm now wondering if this is the same as "salt rising bread", given that the starter is essentially made from soured milk.
I may just give it a go, but not this week - got too much on with my beetroot bonfire bread and some biodynamic wholemeals that aren't working out too well )-:
Then again, if it does have the same aroma/taste, I really think I'll give it a miss... We'll see!
-Gordon
Gordon it is a bit unfair to judge all American chocolate by Hershey, which I agree has a barnyard like taste.
Gerhard
Oh yes, and Christopher Elbow! If you've not tried his, check out his website. Beautiful, artisanal chocolates. http://www.elbowchocolates.com/
Oh, and the bad news of the day? Hershey's has reportedly purchased Scharffen Berger. I hope that doesn't mean changes to our chocolate!
Alas, the Hershey acquisition of Scharffen Berger was actually many years ago. I believe they have maintained the quality of the brand, though. I only use their unsweetened chocolate, for baking.
Wow! I didn't realize that much time had passed. I was bragging about it to an aquaintence who lives in the UK, and when she looked it up she found out about the Hershey's connection. No time frame discussed.
I use the unsweetened, too.
While some types of Clostridium perfringens can and do cause disease The type C which is generated as the starter for salt rising bread is benign. There are NO cases of ill effects from those making or eating salt rising bread! I have made salt rising bread and in doing so have used NO special precautions for my health and safety. The bread is delicious and SAFE. The aroma takes some personal adjustment, but it too is harmless. Don't be afraid of the name of the bacteria -- that strain is harmless!
=================================
"Microbiology of salt rising bread.
Juckett G, Bardwell G, McClane B, Brown S.
W V Med J. 2008 Jul-Aug;104(4):26-7
West Virginia University School of Medicine, USA.
Salt rising bread (SRB) is an Appalachian traditional bread made without yeast, using a starter derived from flour, milk and potatoes. The "rising agent" has been identified as Clostridium perfringens, not salt, and is presumably derived from the environment. Although no cases of illness have been attributed to SRB, C. perfringens type A is a common cause of food poisoning from meats and gravies. Other C. perfringens isolates may cause enteritis necroticans (pig-bel disease) and gas gangrene. Past research documents that pathogenic strains derived from wounds may be used to produce bread and that bacteria isolated from this bread retain their pathogenicity. SRB starter samples were cultured at the University of Pittsburgh and abundant C. perfringens, type A grew out of all samples. However none of the cultures were positive for enterotoxin and thus would be unlikely to cause human food borne disease. While this does not preclude the possibility of other starter mixes containing enteropathogenic strains, the baking process appears to reduce bacterial contamination to safe levels and SRB has not been implicated in causing any human disease."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18646681/
This sounds like a very interesting bread and would like to try it sometime. I'm sure those baking this bread in the mid 19th century didn't do so taking any special precautions and were perfectly fine. I'm curious as to what it tastes like. Are there any health benefits to this bread (like sourdough) or is it made purely for the unique taste?
Thank you for the source as well.
but the crumb was dense for a white bread - it tasted OK to me as well. Can't say the same for Lucy though. Her hair started growing long, as did her nose and body and her legs started to shrink horribly. Next thing you know there wasn't a hole she couldn't go down and she was bringing up all kinds of things like tarantulas and scorpions. Things have never been the same for her since - poor thing. She is just a comic relief of her old self for sure! Sad really......
Poor Lucy. She has quite a story to tell. Been through a lot, poor gal.
You've got me thinking when you said the crumb was dense for a white bread. Apparently this is a purely bacterial leavening. Could it be for a more open crumb there needs to be a yeast leavening going on too? So depending the level of yeast to bacteria in a sourdough starter affects the final crumb as well as the hydration and how it's handled?
Do you think this is a nice bread to try? Was it just "ok"?
And I'm not sure what is in SR starter. I made the bread from Clayton's Complete Book of Bread edition 1 page 307 and the one on 308. The salt rising name comes from the practice of home bakers keeping the starter embedded in a warm bowl of salt to keep it the right temperature overnight - not from any salt in the mix.
I think that you should make some just to know you can and gain a better understanding of making bread the natural way. Same with YW, Witch Yeast, potato starters, honey starters, hops starters and so many more.
I've got a co-worker on board and we will taste it together. Have to do it at least once and, as you say, have another way of making natural bread alongside SD and YW that I've already done. Broaden my horizons and gaining more knowledge. I may even like it. He's providing the cornmeal and I'm doing the rest (guess who's doing most of the work).
I'll be back for the Witch Yeast, Potato, Honey and Hops Starters etc.
I'm just thinking of ways to keep it at a very warm temperature which the UK never gets to even at the height of summer.
the temperature and temperature is key with this starter. I use a heating pad and regulate the heat by adding thickness of kitchen towels and cover with the remainder - sort of breaks the SR tradition of using salt though:-)
Especially with this kind of bread.
Here is a very informative article: http://www.popsci.com/article/science/clostridium-it-can-kill-you-or-it-can-make-you-bread
Very good article which has alleviated some of my concerns about the safety however the yuck factor still remains.
It's winter and I'm in the UK, I would think that the temperatures needed to make this bread will be very difficult to maintain anyway.
Think i'll stick to sourdough where the whole idea when making a starter is to kill off the bad bacteria and propagate all the good stuff. Unlike a salt rising starter which kills off the good bacteria and propagates the yucky stuff.