September 12, 2016 - 8:17am
A little overproofed? What do you think?
So does it looks a little over proofed?
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A little overproofed? What do you think?
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The Fresh Loaf
A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.
What makes you think it is?
What is the recipe? Depending on the flour and hydration will produce different results. It's not sunken in. Did it reach it's full oven spring potential? Well it all depends on a few factors. Was it high hydration? Did you bake it free standing? Did you get steam into the oven?
Looks good to me. But most importantly what does it taste like?
some more info ...
Hi, thanks for your thoughts. Sorry I lazily provided not enough info.
My question is raised mostly by two factors. The big holes tends to be in the upper part, (a little before "where the baker sleeps" stage?) and I still looking for a good ear, as the dough didn't spread much when I scored, I was wondering if it is the proofing time that needs to be adjusted. It tasted very good. Was soft with a thin crust, that did not last long after cold...
This is a sourdough, 66% hydration.
30% whole wheat
35% white wheat "00"italian
35 % semolina
baked free standing covered for 20 min and more 25 min uncovered. at about 240ºc
thanks
but i'll give my pennies worth. An overproofed dough tends to sink when scored. Yours did not.
It is quite a low hydration loaf and if it didn't open up then either one of two things...
1. It crusted over too quickly inhibiting oven spring and therefore the scoring didn't open but you say it was covered for the first 20 minutes so highly unlikely.
2. Shaping. If shaped well then the scoring opens. You would know it was a success even before it goes into the oven. It would open up like a zip when being scored.
If you want an ear then the shaping has to be done well and the scoring has to be done at an angle.
The holes, some larger and others smaller, also points to shaping.
Taste is the main thing :) and I think it looks good too.
for and what you got. Can't see the crust but from the side it looks like the bottom is boldly baked and the top is very pale showing uneven heating in your oven which would effect what the bloom looks like.
some more pictures below
I do love the breads I've being making, and so does the family.
I'm just trying to improve my knowledge a therefore my loafs :)
The fact is that I've been lowering the hydration of my loafs, to come to know the effects. My usual batch was a white 70% and a 60% WW with 80% hydration.
Wonderful results when it comes to taste, but the loafs were flattening a bit to much when took out from the bannetons, and no ears at all.
The first recipe I made was about 65% hydration (white) and in several batches I got one or two great ears.
So this time I throttle back the hydration expecting to get less flattening when scoring, which happened, hoping for some ears...
I thought that maybe my flour is not good enough to go for higher hydration. Unfortunately here in Brasil it's very hard to get good flours.
And as I am a self learner, I'm never sure how thing should look like, well besides videos and pictures.
So this time I hold back some of the water, and keep adding until I find that the dough was looking nice, than I measured the resulting hydration. and got 66%
I know I don't need the ears and that taste and texture are the main things. But they look so good... :)
I'm about to import some flours to check how much this is impacting my results.
Also I just changed to baking covered instead of steaming he oven. I found that my results with steaming was not so good in my gas oven.
Dabrownman, how the uneven heat does impact the bloom?
This was a 3 loaf batch two baked in a baking sheet covered by foil (the battards) and the round in my new combo cooker. I found that the one in combo cooker got a less baked bottom than the other 2. One of them I left 5 minutes more in oven and it got darker, but with a still ok bottom (see the pictures). I may left them all more time next time. Don't the color has to do with the flour also?
Thanks a lot you both for your time and thoughts.
Nothing wrong with your scoring so nothing wrong with your shaping. Your loaves must have bloomed for the scoring to open up so well. In order to get an "ear" it is how you score. You've displayed one type where the scoring stays flat and opens up wide. I think you scored straight down. To get the ear you've got to angle the blade by about a 45°. It is more difficult and I don't achieve it too often.
For more bloom you might need a stronger flour. You're the judge here but I think they look excellent.
As I said I do love them. ;)
I'll keep trying to improve my scoring.
:)
How do they say?
Happy baking.
There is an alternative of placing the dough inside the banneton seam side down! Then when you turn it over there is no need to score as the seams will act as a natural scoring. See how that turns out? I think it looks lovely and natural. Can't promise ears but it does have a nice effect. Works well with the hydration you're using.
https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/bread-scoring-with-confidence/
myweekendbakery says to score at about a 30° to get a good ear. Check out the link. Other then that all I can say is to watch videos on scoring techniques.
Actually I did it once, but the rise was a flop for other reasons. So I need another try.
Funny. the first bread I made, was from weekendbakery site. I started there. I've read all that already. Great site.
Thanks Lechem.
If you think the holes are too large, or close to the crust, here is some advice from "Traditional Bread Baking" by Eve Parker:
Looks more like the latter, so maybe just a touch less time or temperature for the final shaped proof. But it certainly looks like it still had enough 'push' left to get good oven spring!
Those have being proofed in fridge, so perhaps the first one is more like it.
Thanks Lazy
:)
Do you put the bannetons (or whatever) inside plastic bags while proofing?
I usually do, but this time I just used a tea towel, hence my bet in first case.
:)
The loaves look nice and I'll bet they taste good also. Your formula appears to me like it would yield a slack diugh, based on mid-60s percent hydration with soft flour which are the 00 and the semolina. Slack dough in my experience flattens out while proofing and doesn't see tremendous oven spring. This is with no proofing basket or pan.
My standard formula is mid-70s percent hydration, and with soft flour it is a very slack dough. Your formula is not too far off what I use.
As said I used to do it with 70%, but I'm trying to cut some water to see the results.
thanks Semolina
Since you mentioned the difficulty in getting good flour here in Brazil: I too have resorted recently to buying Italian "00" flour in an attempt to get a better quality product. Have tried both Colavita and Caputo brands, with good results, but they can be hard to come by at the supermarket. I've managed to get similar results from the vacuum-packed "Dona Benta" flours, both white and whole wheat, and they're cheaper than the imported ones. In my limited experience, both Brazilian and Italian flours (at least the two brands I've tried) may require a lower hydration than the flours used in most American recipes, so your 66% sounds about right to me.
Hi Marcos, I'll keep it in english so anyone can read. Thanks for your tips about flours. Actually after using "00" a lot I found an organic white and whole flour that yields me a very good loaf. This time I was without it so I gone back to "00". But a new batch just arrived. The flour is "Ecobio" and they sell it in their site, although the shipping make it a bit expensive. This days I'm buying it in an organic "feira" at Rio for R$ 10,00/kg (~us$ 3.00). It makes a better loaf in my opinion than the "00". I think "00" flour gives a slight "polvilho" (a specific kind of manioc flour) taste to the bread while the Ecobio makes a more "bread" bread :)
Give it a try, if you can, it is said to have 14% protein (white). Although I think it handles less water anyway. With the added benefit that it is really fresh. Which makes a big difference specially the whole one.
Another option is imported flour. I buy it online from casa de saron. They have some, including Manitoba and Bagatelle T65, and T110 (spelt). Just ordered some to test.
Valeu!!
Vicente
http://www.ecobiosaude.com.br/produto/farinha-de-trigo-branca-produto-organico?cod=4
http://www.lojacasadesaron.com.br
Wow! Thanks for the links and tips on organic flour, I'll definitely be looking for something similar, preferably at a "brick-and-mortar" shop (I'm from São Paulo) as the shipping from that Ecobio site is indeed a bit on the expensive side. I'm looking forward to your experiments with the imported flour!
The results you got from your recipe made me want to try it, so I'm in the process of preparing the dough for baking tomorrow night. I usually try making just a small sample of a new recipe to get the hang of it. In this case, it'll be a 200g flour loaf: 1/3 white "00" flour, 1/3 semolina and 1/3 whole wheat, plus 20% starter (all whole wheat, 100% hydration), a bit over 66% hydration (got my hands too wet when working the dough :)). Let's see how it turns out...
By the way, I bake my loaves in a makeshift Dutch oven: the biggest and cheapest aluminium pan that I could fit in my oven. I'm too cheap to spend money on an expensive cast iron "casserole" :)
find the ecobio in whole products stores in sampa (eu sou paulistano:). And the saron store is there so you can just stop by :) I'm using a normal baking sheet covered by foil, and also an iron combo cooker. I think the combo cooker is a little better in not burning the bottom, but it's a marginal difference.
Happy baking.
Another thing, do you know any bread forum in portuguese?
Vicente,
The small test loaf, as per the recipe above based on yours, except that in calculating the hydration I didn't account for the starter (40g at 100% hydration=20g of water), so it was in fact about 70%, not 66%. Dough left in the fridge for 19 hours, then out for about 1h30m, then into 20m pre-heated covered pan in my oven.
An now you have got me interested in that organic flour! Will look up the addresses and see if I can find a shop nearby, and maybe pay a visit on Saturday morning :)
I'm not aware of any forum in Portuguese. It occurs to me that there might be something like that based in Portugal, which should be great by the way, given how famous they are for their traditional bread making.
Does it tastes good as well?
There is some forums from Portugal. But my point is actually not the language. I should have said a Brazilian forum. What I miss is gather the home bakers from Brasil together to exchange locally. For instance this specific flour issue is a very local issue and as we just saw, sharing experiences might help us.
Actually I'll try tu put up a forum with this intent. Let's see if we can find how many home bakers we have around :)
stay tuned.
abraços
vk
Emphasis on was: it didn't last long for its small size :)
You're right, the lack of local info (where to get good flour, equipment, techniques, tips on traditional recipes, etc.) was, and still is to some extent, a barrier that almost put me off when I started to learn about sourdough bread making. A Brazilian forum would be most welcome!
Abraço!