The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Time and Space problem

Valdus's picture
Valdus

Time and Space problem

I am still having scheduling problems with making my sourdough. I am following Ed Wood's sourdough recipe and it calls for an initial proof of 8-12, doubling in size. I wonder if it takes that long? Do I wait for the doubling or the time?

Also I followed a friend's recipe of an initial proof of 12 hours, kneading every 4 hours for a total of 3. It came out great, rose well and all. But does a sourdough have to be that labor intensive?

 

 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

Watch the dough and not the clock. Whether your dough doubles in 2 hours or 6 hours, when it doubles (for most recipes) it's done.

Also kneading is not really necessary; the stretch and fold (S&F) technique takes so little effort and yields wonderful results.  I do one S&F every 30 minutes 3-6 times and I love the resulting texture. 

Valdus's picture
Valdus

I consider stretch and fold to be the kneading. Ok so watch the size, can I say the same for refreshing the starter, simply doubles to the amount required in the recipe? So do I really need that 3 hour S&F?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I'm not sure what you're asking regarding refreshing the starter and a 3 hour S&F. Your starter doesn't need any manipulation at all. Just mix up the mother culture with some fresh flour and water, and let it sit until it is poufy and bubbly, then it's ready to use.

As far as the dough, what I do now (and it seems to be working, though that could change without any prior notice given the vagaries of sourdough) is to mix my dough in the evening (and by 'mix' I mean mix flour, water and maybe starter, rest for 30 minutes, add salt and other add-ins, and mix either with the stand mixer if a big batch, or by hand (pinch, fold, squish, pummel and whatever else works) if it's one or two loaves), then stretch and fold every 30 minutes until the dough feels strong, stretchy and alive. This is usually over a couple of hours. Then (and here's the chancy bit) I let it bulk ferment in the basement where it's cooler at the moment, overnight (so, maybe 12 hours).

In the morning I'm finding the dough is at least double if not more and has a nice dome (has not collapsed). It's wobbly and poofy and full of life. I pre-shape it, let it rest, then shape it and proof for around an hour before baking, and it has been gorgeous. As I said, that could change at any time.

I wouldn't say any of this is labour intensive, but it's not 'instant' bread for sure!

Valdus's picture
Valdus

I did the initial sponge and knead at about 4, going to check it and knead it a few times then leave it out overnight. I know my obsession will wake me at about 2 or so and Ill give it another knead. Considering the extended period of time (16 hours), should I put it in the fridge?

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

When my starter is ready (it's always ready; I have about 8 gallons of it at all times, so some is always ready), I mix all the ingredients at once for a few minutes, let it sit for about 4 hours, then do one round of s&f right before preshaping, shaping, proof in fridge overnight, then bake from fridge.  For one or two loaves there's about 2 minutes of hands-on time after mixing and before it's in the oven.

drogon's picture
drogon

You don't need to knead, you don't need to do much more than just mix and let it be - if you want to. I mix in the evening, leave half an hour. lightly knead (30 seconds) then leave it overnight. In the morning, I scale/shape and leave it to prove - about 1.5 hours then into the oven.

Read through this for some ideas: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44111/easy-sourdough-part-1

-Gordon

clazar123's picture
clazar123

If you build a really active starter, and then provide an 80-82F environment for the bulk ferment, you can have a rise-to-double in 2-4 hours. Make sure your flour and liquid are also body temperature.

I often do an over night fermentation for whole wheat.

My starter is very active and in the mid-morning I make a preferment of 1 c flour+1 cup water+2 tbsp. starter.

Mix and let sit at room temp for 4-8 hours (until risen and bubbly).

By 8pm, I mix my dough ingredients (whatever recipe you use) with all the preferment in my standmixer.

Put it into a greased, covered container and put it into the refrigerator overnight.

Next am, it often has doubled in the refrigerator overnight.

Divide-pan-let proof (about 1 hour) and bake.

Whatever recipe and method you use, really make your starter active and the rise-to-double will take much less time.

Arjon's picture
Arjon

If the dough is in a container with sloped sides, it's not uncommon for the eye test not to say the volume has doubled until it has actually increased more than double. I found this out by using the straight-sided glass test. When the dough in the glass had doubled, my eyes thought the full dough wasn't there yet, more like 1.5x.