Trouble with New England Hot Dog pan and sourdough
Hi everyone! Thanks in advance for your advice.
I got this nifty New England hot dog roll pan and am trying to make hot dog rolls. I am using KAF's Best Burger Buns recipe and switch out some flour/water for sourdough starter and omit the yeast (which I use successfully for hamburger rolls) but it's not turning out well. The taste is good, it's a little sweet, but they are ugly and crusty on the outside. Here is what I did.
Mix all ingredients and knead until windowpane is acheived. I used oil instead of butter and instead of baker's yeast I used 75g unfed starter, 390g AP flour, and 131g water.
Bulk ferment for a couple hours then stick in fridge overnight.
The next morning--let come to room temperature, about 2-3 hours. Spray hot dog pan with oil. Press dough into hot dog roll pan. Wait 10 minutes to let dough relax and spread the dough all the way to the edges. Spray with a little oil to prevent sticking to plastic wrap.
Proof until dough reaches 1/2 inch below rim of pan. I proofed in the pan for about 3 hours. Bake with a baking sheet sprayed with oil on top and a cast iron pan to weigh it down. Bake for 18 minutes and remove pan. Bake for 5 more minutes....not brown at all...2 more minutes....2 more minutes....give up and take out of oven.
What am I doing wrong?
Follow up question--can I use less sugar since I'm not using instant yeast?
Looks to me that the surface of the dough wasn't smooth. How about forming each roll separately so you can form a nice smooth surface? Light, shiny pans tend to give you a lighter brown color. For the hard, crusty part I would let the rolls cool and then put them in a plastic bag. The crust will then soften up.
I will try shaping them individually. What do you think about not putting a weight on top of the pan?
..essential stage. You need to shape the dough into individual rolls first and only then place them in the tin (of which I am very envious by the way, I will now save up to buy one). Don't give up on the KAF recipe. It is really good. I use it a lot. But it is too sweet, so I've cut the sugar.
Don't whatever you do, put weight on the dough. Compression is a very bad idea when you want light fluffy hot dog rolls.
If you shape first, you will get great rolls.
Great, how much did you cut the sugar? Do they still brown well? I think I need to move my oven rack up, browning is taking a lot of time in my new oven.
I thought the compression was a bad idea, but in KAF's instructions for their pan they recommend it. I shaped my rolls and didn't put a weight on top this time, and had great result's with Ford's recipe (see below). I will try the burger bun recipe again too. I have to make sure I get my sourdough/water/flour ratio correct.
Here is my recipe. Good luck!
Buns, Sourdough Hot Dog1 cup (9 oz., 255 g) sourdough starter (100% hydration)
7.4 fl. oz. (8 oz., 226 g) scalded milk (or use cultured buttermilk), at 80°F
3 cup (12.8 oz., 361 g) all purpose unbleached flour
1 1/2 tspn. (0.3 oz., 8 g) salt
2 to 6 Tbs. (1 to 3 oz., 28 to 85g) butter (More. for a more tender, less for more chewy bun)
Mix half the flour, all the butter, and all the milk. Let this sit for about an hour; if using buttermilk, omit this autolyse period. Blend in the starter, salt, and as much of the rest of the flour as can be mixed with a spoon. Turn out on to a floured surface and hand knead, adding flour if required, until dough is smooth and elastic. Place in a greased bowl and let rise until doubled.
Preheat the oven to 400°F. Lightly butter a New England style hotdog bun pan (15” x 6” x 1 1/2“), if available, otherwise use a similarly sized pan or a cookie sheet. Divide the dough into ten equal weight pieces (~3.3 oz. each). Shape each piece into a miniature baton 6 inches long. Place on a buttered pan. Space the batons at equal intervals, about 1.4 inches. Thoroughly brush the batons with melted butter. If you have a pan with the preferred dimensions and sides, the sides will shape the rolls as they rise. (King Arthur sells a special hot dog bun pan.)
When the rolls have risen to about 1 3/4 inches, mist them with water and place them in the preheated oven with a pan of boiling water below. Spritz the oven with water every two minutes, or so for the first five minutes. Remove the boiling water after ten minutes, and reduce the oven temperature to 350°F. The internal temperature of the bread should reach 195 – 200°F and have a brown top when they are done, about 20 to 25 minutes.
Place the buns on a cooling rack; brush with butter and cover them with plastic wrap or moist paper towel. Buns may be used immediately or, when cooled, stored in a sealed plastic bag until the hotdogs are ready. The buns may be frozen for later use. If you have buttered the dough thoroughly, the buns will separate at the junctures. I recommend the buns be separated before freezing. They may be cut from top to about a half inch from bottom to hold the wiener and the dressings.
Fors
This sounds great. I culture my own buttermilk so I'm looking forward to trying this one!
I tried these and they are great! They taste a little like a biscuit and with the texture of a roll. Very tasty. I can't stop eating the "ends"!
Wrong recipe, 390g flour, 131g wate, and 75g starter, not a bread recipe. Try 231g water instead, that will give you 63% hydration
Thank you for the feedback. Is this considering the other ingredients in the recipe? The egg, oil? Here's the recipe: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/beautiful-burger-buns-recipe. I used the lower weight water because it is humid here, not hot though. Maybe I should increase my water a little.
No, my comment does not consider the egg. You did not mention an egg in the original post.
When I convert, I get 390g flour, 140g water, 39g egg, 22g butter, but this is a very dry bread dough even for humid areas.
390g flour, at least 175g (54%hyd) water (King Arthur's 1 Cup option uses 186g,58%, after scaling down as you did), 39g egg, 22g butter, is more standard.
Thanks again, I will definitely try using more water with this recipe.