The Fresh Loaf

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100% Organic Whole Wheat, Levain, & No Knead?

davidhunternyc's picture
davidhunternyc

100% Organic Whole Wheat, Levain, & No Knead?

Hello, 

This is my first post on The Fresh Loaf forums. I am so excited to get to know a community of expert bread bakers. I am a beginner bread baker. I have only attempted 3 loaves a bread, all of them done this week. I was inspired by the Netflix television series, "Cooked". There were four episodes; "Fire", "Water", "Air", and "Earth". The episode, "Air", was all about bread baking; why levain was superior to yeast starters and why 100% whole wheat flour was superior to white flour. So I just had to start making this bread and I was also inspired by no knead bread. I am wondering if no knead bread is possible with levain and 100% whole wheat. Please, I need your help. 

So these are the three loaves I've made so far. They taste great but they all have problems. The first loaf was my first and I was just a clutz. I didn't care so much. The major problems all three loaves have is that there are not a lot of air bubbles inside. The bread is dense and heavy, almost doughy still. It seems like the moisture got trapped inside the bread and did not evaporate enough. 

So roughly, even though I made a few changes, here is my technique: 3 cups organic whole wheat flour, 1 1/2 cups water, 1 tablespoon levain, 1 1/2 teaspoons sea salt. I mix together and let it rise, covered in seran wrap for 12 hours. I then scrape the dough out of the bowl onto a floured work surface. I gently flatten the dough and fold in the four sides. I let it rise a second time for 2 hours. I pre-heat the oven to 450° with a covered glass pyrex pot inside. After the 2 hours I put score the dough and put the dough in the hot pyrex, lid covered for 30 minutes. I then take off the lid for 10 more minutes until crust is golden and crunchy. 

I was hoping that you guys would give me some advice. I think the cracks on the sides of the bread, especially the last one, was because I didn't score the bread enough so the moisture could not escape? I am sure I am doing other things wrong too. I would like to continue to make this 100% whole wheat bread but have it light and fluffy inside. I do not want to cut it with white flour or use a yeast starter. I also don't want use other things such as beer, honey, or sugar. I would like to achieve light and fluffly 100% whole bread by just changing my technique only. (The last loaf was made with 100% einkorn whole wheat flour. I read that einkorn does not have as much gluten as modern whole wheat flours.) Your help will greatly be appreciated. 

 

 

 

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

100% whole wheat does not have the same gluten content as regular white flour (since ww flour also contains germ and bran, which don't have gluten: you can also say that while 100% of white flour contains gluten, only 75% of ww flour contains gluten), so this will cause a difference in texture and structure.  Furthermore, it has been surmised that tiny "hairs" on the bran tend to puncture air bubbles in the dough, which does not allow it to gain a really great structure.

I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but to me, "light and fluffy" means you will have to basically whip the flour to death in the mixer and achieve something aerated like wonder bread.  Else it will be dense.

debsch's picture
debsch

Hi, also a beginner here...
Have you tried working the dough as shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUZ0O-Wv0Q
It's made a huge difference to my bread loaves.
Also, I think more water, higher hydration dough, results in bigger holes. Using high protein bread flour helps too. I use white but I'm sure you can get high protein wholemeal.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

If you really want to get good results,  it will help to get a scale  -  which is much more accurate than measuring by cups -  and will let you add or subtract precise amounts of water to get hydration right.  Second,  it will be a help if you put the dough in a container with straight sides for the bulk ferment ( first rise) - usually you are looking for doubling of volume, not a number of hours, since the time will vary greatly based on temperature and how active your starter is .  Finally, if they taste too moist or gummy, that is likely because they needed more time in the oven. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

outside especially the einkorn.  There are all kinds of whole grain breads mainly wheat, rye, emmer, spelt, Kamut, einkorn and combinations of them with other grains like buckwheat, millet, amaranth, quinoa etc Some have more gluten forming proteins that others and some have no gluten forming proteins at all.  Each have their own characteristics of how much hydration  is required, how much dough handling and gluten forming is necessary, how long they nedd to ferment and proof etc.  They all aren't the same and whole einkorn is way different than whole wheat in all of these areas.

Getting a scale would help as would a instant read thermometer.  Do not watch the clock but the dough.  Generally speaking your, 'Ho Knead'  whole wheat bread would probably benefit from some stretch and folds at 30, 60 and 120 minute intervals and then shaping when the dough has doubled in volume when ever that is. An oiled straight sided container would be helpful to know when this happens.  

Then shape and let rise, proof, in a rice floured basket seam side down until it has risen 80% for a whole grain bread before un-molding onto parchment on a peel.  Then gem;y slide it into the dutch oven (or onto a stone with steam).  Bale with lid on at 450 F for 20 minutes and then with lid off until the center of the loaf reaches 207 F.  Then let cool completely, at least 3 hours, before slicing.

That should cure your problems.  Happy baking 

davidhunternyc's picture
davidhunternyc

Wow, thank you all for your help and advice. I don't know where to begin. First of all, your advice about using a straight sided clear container and then marking where the mixed dough is and making another mark for when the doughs doubles in size during the first rise was excellent.

Yes, the more I think about it, the more arbitrary it is to think of exact times, like 12 hours or 18 hours is when the dough should be folded for the second rising. What, the dough knows how to tell time? I am now clear headed about this pointer.

Also, yesterday, I did order an instant read thermometer. I think this will help too.

Your advice about using a scale rather than using measuring cups for accuracy makes perfect sense too. Do you have any advice on which scale I should get? I prefer digital scales that can read 1/10 of 1 gram. I can use it for other measurements besides bread. How much should 1 cup of flour weigh and what is the exact weight of water I should add? I am not sure? 

Also, what about whipping the flour in a mixer? Could this work? 

I found the comment about "hairy" wheat interesting. It is a plausable theory. Also, even though the last picture here is 100% einkorn and it looks O.K. it, by far, was the gummiest of the three breads. I cooked it 10 minutes longer too. It was the biggest failure of the three breads but it was also the tastiest. I used King Arthur's Organic Whole Wheat flour for the top two and the bread was delicious but not near as good as the einkorn bread. Inside the bread the einkorn has this golden hue were the King Arthur flour had this bland brown hue. The einkorn tasted fresh and delicious. It's just my technique that sucks. 

I will try and implement your ideas and your experiences in the next batches. I will try a few more times and get back to this topic. Thank you all so much.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

temperature- the higher the faster, the flour- whole grains faster than white, hydration- the higher the faster and enzymatic activity - the more the faster.  so times really mean very little other than a general rule of thumb that is always wrong:-) 

I use a scale that does both grams and ounces, 1 gram to 11 pounds and have no need for a scale that does smaller or larger than that for anything.  It cost about $20 .

How much water you need for a recipe depends on the kind of flour and what bread you are trying to make.  Bagels using HG flour are at 52-54 % hydration but partially whole grain ones are 58-60% and whole grain ones could be 65%.  White breads using AP and bread flour are from 68-78% and whole grain ones 85-104%.  Partial whole grain ones could be from 75-85%.  So it depends - just like time.  Getting to know what a dough is supposed to feel like for a certain kind of bread comes with experience.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

This site loves to double post or not post anything for some reason :-)  When it double posted this one it cane back and said it can't do emails  twice and that it posted the comment - twice -  never doubled those up before - so beware - the site is evolving:-)

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

For a digital scale,  I like the Escali  http://www.amazon.com/Primo-Digital-Kitchen-Scale-Chrome/dp/B0007GAWRS?ie=UTF8&keywords=escali%20scale&qid=1461063940&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1   it measure to 1 grame.  If you want something to read to the 1/10 gram, which would be helpful for yeast,  go with a cheap jewelry or pocket scale http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-ACP-200-Digital/dp/B003STEIYY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1461064010&sr=8-5&keywords=jewerly+scale      With the Escali, you should be able to put the bowl on the scale, hit tare- so it will read 0, add the correct amount of flour, hit tare, then the amount of water.  So yes digital makes life much easier.   The exact weight of water will vary by recipe, but is called the hydration percentage.  So if the hydration percentage is 70%, and you have 200 grams of flour, you will add 140 grams of water ( 200 x .7)  All the ingredients are a percentage of the flour, it makes it easy to change the total volume from one loaf to several. 

davidhunternyc's picture
davidhunternyc

Thank you for your help and recommendations. I ordered an instant read thermometer and it will be here in a couple of days. Here is the one I got: 

http://www.thermoworks.com/products/thermapen/

Also, I just ordered a scale. I really wanted a .01 gram scale. I hope this was a good choice. Check it out and let me know what you think: 

http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Digital-Kitchen-Stainless-Resolution/dp/B00QFCG5ZQ?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_2&smid=A99MZGWBBIGK9

So yes, you have all made me realize I need to get more exacting with my measurements. Do you have any idea what ratios I should start out with for 100% einkorn flour? What would 1 cup of einkorn flour translate ideally into grams? How many grams of water should I add for 3 cups of flour? 

Since I don't have the scale yet, I think that, roughly, I should try 3 cups of einkorn flour to 1 1/4 cups of water. 

Also, since I will be using a glass Pyrex pot, my bread has been burning on the bottom when I bake it at 450° and it still comes out gummy inside. What do you think about baking the bread at 425° for a longer period of time, say 45 minutes, and then take off the lid and raise the temperature to 450° for 10 minutes for a nice crust? 

Your help is greatly appreciated. 

  
pmccool's picture
pmccool

type the word einkorn in the Search box at the top-right corner of the page.  You'll get lots of posts by people who have worked with the grain.  With no einkorn experience of my own, that's the best help I can offer.  ;-)

Paul

kutzeh's picture
kutzeh

I  read a hint...take temp of bread in the center,   suggested  at least 202 degrees for a dryer center. Has worked for me with no knead white and a bit  higher for rye and whole wheat.

 

davidhunternyc's picture
davidhunternyc

It has now been 4 months since I started this thread. I have switched from using modern whole wheat flours to making bread with 100% Einkorn exclusively.  I have been making bread 2 - 3 times a week, each time writing down changes to my recipe and notating the results. It took me awhile to realize that I had to knead the dough somewhat to avoid large random breaks to the bread during the bake. My recipe is now "almost no knead". My recipe uses 100% Einkorn flour, levain, water, and salt only. I am trying to keep every step as simple as possible and I am quite happy with the results. I have not found a satisfying 100% Einkorn recipe anywhere. Many recipes add unnecessary ingredients or steps to the process. When I finally get my definitive recipe, I will post a new thread on these forums. Thank you all for your contributions. Your thoughts and suggestions have helped me immensely. 

 

 

davidhunternyc's picture
davidhunternyc

It's been a bit over a year since my last post. I am dedicated to whole grain Einkorn bread exclusively made only with flour, water, levain, and salt. No refrigeration. Minimalist technique. I am getting better. Here is my latest loaf. Finally, a high rise with no breaks in the crust. Compare to my earlier loafs.

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I am currently in Austria and have access to Einkorn flour again! yay!  Willing to repeat your recipe.  

Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You got me begging!  :)

I want you your recipe!  

AndyPanda's picture
AndyPanda

I'm new to the forum, but I've been grinding wheat and baking bread from 100% WW for ages.  Most of the techniques I'm reading about here on the forum are new to me - so it's fun learning new things.   

I thought I'd share one tip that I use sometimes with whole wheat.   It's a little extra work and I don't always do it but I think I get better texture when I do.    After I grind the wheat, I screen it thru a #40 (or even a #60 sometimes - but that takes a lot longer) and set the coarse, bran and germ aside for now.  Then I do all my kneading and only add the bran back in at the end (I also usually add seeds at the end - but that the kind of bread I like).  I feel like doing the kneading without the bran helps the texture.  And if I want softer bread sometimes - but still want the health benefits of the bran, I just eat the bran and wash it down with a glass of water instead of adding it back to the bread - haha.

This past week or so I've just started learning about sourdough and I've been using the screened out bran/germ to feed the starter so that helps soften it quite a bit compared to just adding it back in after kneading.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

is the easiest way to make use of it.  Another is to cook it for a Tangzhong effect.  Can replace up to 10% of the flour weight that way then 5 x the water (all part of the recipe so reduce flour and water amounts.  Weigh complete cooking vessel before and after cooking the bran so you can replace any missing water.  I would soak it overnight first in the water, then cook before use letting it cool down.  

Any lengthy soaking reduces the high phytic acid amounts found in the bran.  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven