The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Sir Galahad or Sir Lancelot

zachyahoo's picture
zachyahoo

Sir Galahad or Sir Lancelot

I've been baking my way through a 50# bag of King Arthur's Special Patent flour (their bread flour), and I've had some great results with this so far. Unfortunately my online source for it is out of stock and I'd have to pay at least $40 (if not more) in just shipping costs to get it elsewhere.

I may have a local source for either King Arthur's Sir Galahad or Sir Lancelot flours.

I understand Sir Galahad to be their AP and Sir Lancelot to be their high-gluten flour.

They say that you can use Sir Galahad for baking hearth artisan breads but I really have my doubts. Am I better off going with the Galahad or Lancelot?

What kind of changes might I have to make to the current recipes I've been using? Adding Vital Wheat Gluten to the mix if I choose AP flour or maybe adding more water if I choose the high-gluten flour?

Would love some input from the community here!

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

They say you can use Sir Galahad because you can.  You may have to reduce your water ever so slightly but personally I wouldn't add any vital wheat gluten, there is plenty of protein in Sir Galahad to produce wonderful baguettes and other hearth breads.

zachyahoo's picture
zachyahoo

Great, it looks like Sir Galahad has very similar "stats" as Central Milling's flour that I was interested in. I'll definitely give it a shot. Thanks!

estherc's picture
estherc

Ken Forkish, for example, uses AP flour for all his breads. Theoretically with all purpose you should have a more open crumb. I like all purpose better myself. Many people reserve bread flour for bagels. 

 

There are other factors to besides protein percent. Quality of the protein varies so it may be worth buying premium flours. Another factor is tolerance. I don't know if that's relevant for home bakers but it means how much handling the dough will take. A more tolerant flour will have a wider window, allowing various degrees of handling to develop the gluten before it gets over worked. Whether that makes any difference to us, vs someone who is mixing huge batches in an Orowheat factory, I don't know. 

T. Fargo's picture
T. Fargo

 Many people reserve bread flour for bagels. 

I concur with this (Have been using Bob's Red mill bread flour for my bagels).  The research I have done concerning flours used in artisan bread leads me to use AP flour.  In the EU, flour is classified by ash content, while in the US, by protein content so NOT apples to apples.  It boils down to experiment, take notes, adjust and eat more bread. :)

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

The high gluten flour is much too strong for most artisan type breads. The AP flour is 11.7%, which is slightly higher than what most people seem to use for artisan breads, but will work fine.

embth's picture
embth

The "Sir Lancelot" flour is wonderful for chewy bagels and bialys….and for rye breads to give as much gluten structure as possible to a dough with only a small percentage of wheat flour.   The Sir Galahad is a great choice for hearth breads and I am sure you will like the results.    Happy Baking!

zachyahoo's picture
zachyahoo

Thanks to all for the input. I'll definitely be giving the Sir Galahad a shot. I found a place that would sell me 50lb bags.. But has a $200 minimum! I'll have to keep looking :/

JustineD's picture
JustineD

At nybakers.com, you can buy an assortment of specialty flours in 5 lb bags that you can otherwise only buy in 50 lb bags. They have a King Arthur . Look on the left for the link titled NYB flourpantries. King Arthur specialty flours are available in several of the flour pantry packages, but the one I bought is NYB King Arthur Bread FlourPantry, and consists of three 5 lb bags of: 

  • Sir Lancelot (14.2% protein),
  • Special Spring Patent (12.7%), and
  • Sir Galahad (11.7%).

KA Sir Lancelot is also sold in their NYB High-Gluten FlourPantry offering. (By the way, if you're looking to make French baguettes, Sir Galahad is equivalent to the Type 55 they use in France.)

And of course, they have some other flours that are just amazing. 

 
embth's picture
embth

You may find others who would pool their orders with yours and make it easy to reach that minimum.  The shop may be able give you some leads.  The flour will keep for a long time especially if you can freeze it.   With 50 lbs bags of whole wheat, I re-bag it into 5 lb portions and freeze most of it.  I go through 50 lbs of white flour fast enough to just keep it in an airtight container.  You can find nice bins that hold 50 lbs and have wheels on the bottom.  Just roll the bin out of the pantry and start mixing!  

T. Fargo's picture
T. Fargo

  An inexpensive alternative for 50 pounds of flour storage would be 3 (three) clean 5 gallon plastic buckets with tight fitting lids (depending on aeration of flour, you may even only need 2).  Easy to downsize and will keep infestation from occurring. see more here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11525/volume-weight-container-question

zachyahoo's picture
zachyahoo

Unfortunately, I have no freezer space in my place. My roommates have it stuffed with processed foods. Definitely no room for unused flour. I found another place that has a $75 minimum that I may consider – but this would still be A LOT of flour, like 250 pounds!!

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

As a cottage baker I too worked overtime to try and source Sir Galahad, mainly because it was what Jeffrey Hamelman used to make baguettes for King Arthur Flour's bakery in Vermont. After a lot of frustration I called KAF and the customer service rep said that it was the same flour as KAF AP, just packaged for large distribution. Still skeptical I emailed Mr. Hamelman directly and he confirmed what the rep said.

Since then I have been purchasing 25 lb. bags of KAF AP from my local Costco, and now see the same bags at my local grocery store at about $12.00 US per bag. I use it strictly for baguettes and have had fabulous results with it.

If your baking needs require smaller quantities you can find KAF AP in 5 and 10 lb. bags too. Very convenient and no long-term storage issues.

AgEr's picture
AgEr

I came across this discussion 5 years later... I want to add on the considerations about how to choose between those flours.

These fours are different in their ability to absorb water. If your formula has less than 70% water, a good AP flour should work fine. Above 75% - my experience shows that a stronger flour (= higher gluten content) is required. My standard sourdough formula is around 85%. The King Arthur's Special Patent flour works great with it, resulting in excellent extensibility and open crumb. The gray zone of 70 to 75% calls for some experimentation. I found the Special Patent flour to work well.

Long bulk fermentation of sourdough formulae carries its own issues, as the increased acidity of the dough adversely affects the gluten development, rendering the dough "watery". Higher gluten content flour helps to somewhat overcome this.

Also, consider using the Special Patent flour if there are other flour types in your formula, like rye and certain types of ancient grain flours that are low in gluten.

Finally, high gluten content flour results in a very elastic and hence dense crumb. This what you want in a traditional bagel. However, highly elastic dough is difficult to shape to something which is not a Boule or Batard. Trying to stretch dough made with Sir Lancelot flour into a baguette can very frustrating. It will keep shrinking back like a piece of rubber. The same goes for pizza dough. You want to stretch it a lot, something that higher gluten dough won't let you do.

Ciarli's picture
Ciarli

Sir Lancelot of course!

due to its high protein contents it tastes like you are chewing meat!

Okay its not real meat but anyway!