Help with Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough/starter maintenance
Hello, people! I've read so many posts re starter maintenance over the last few days that my head is about to explode! Could any 2 of you agree on a method??!! Please!! Apparently Not! All of those exclamation points point clearly to my level of crazy over this -- and thank you for welcoming me as a poster and no longer just a reader :-).
I've only ton a teeny bit of sourdough baking through the years but I am now determined to master it. I thought I would keep it simple by purchasing King Arthur starter and following Hamelman's instructions. Problem is Hamelman is confusing me.
In the recipe for Vermont Sourdough he states holding back 28g of starter. Is he thereby suggesting that this 28g be the amount of starter that I keep -- routinely?
On pg. 428 of "Bread" where he lists the Baker's % for his Liquid Levain, the percentages are as follows: Starter 111%, White Flour 100%, Water 125%.
If I'm working with 28g of starter, I would then add 25g of flour & 31g of water, for a total of 84g (assuming my math checks). 84g seems like a not unusual amount to maintain, yes? (Though I admit to being in awe of the guy who keeps 9g!) For now I'm keeping it on the counter and feeding twice per day.
Next question (which if it's been addressed elsewhere and I've missed it, sorry), is the build he describes (20% mature + 100% white flour + 125% water) OK to do in one build, or should there be multiple builds? If there should be multiple, how, exactly, would I execute those builds?
Thanks so much to all of you brilliant, supportive and experienced people!
ps: "Hilda von Mixer" is what I have named by shiny new Haussler Alpha -- I'm not kidding around here, I want to make Really Good Bread!
84 g seems right. I work with 80 at 100% hydration. One build is right. If you are making a lot of bread you may need more starter but you would use the starter ratio not the Levan ratio.
You answered about 6 questions in two sentences. Slam!
I had been keeping a lot more, at first following KA's instructions, then JH's, which both have about 300g. I was happy to do so with brand new starter to make sure she felt well-fed (and well-loved). Tonight I will toss all but 28g, feed as mentioned above, then hopefully get cranking with some VT sourdough tomorrow.
... is that there's no single definitive way to to do it. Every baker will have their own favourite method and they all may well be different...
So to confuse you more (sorry!) I keep 3 jars of starters in my fridge. They're used 5 days a week and I keep about 550g of starter in each one. I'd keep more but the jars aren't big enough.
Obviously if you're following one particular recipe then you need to stick to the regime used by that recipe, but for JH's VT sourdough, I'd simply follow the recipe and take 1oz (28g) of my starter from the fridge, add to this 6oz of water and 4.8oz of flour and carry on... However his recipe then uses all the levian except 2T (table/tea spoons) - presumably to keep that back to build your next starter.
I'd not throw away any of my remaining starter - it would live on in the fridge to be used again.
That method of keeping a little levian back to be your next starter works well - but it needs you to be making that same bread on a regular basis - easy for a commercial bakery to do ("We make this bread daily in the King Arthur Flour Bakery") but may not be convenient at home, so keeping a "mother" starter in the fridge and just taking from it, the re-building it when it gets low might be a more convenient way - search this site for dabrownmans no muss no fuss starter for an example. Of-course you're not then strictly making JH's Vermont sourdough, but it's not far off...
-Gordon
I may well in the future keep starter in the fridge, but for now I enjoy keeping it out in order to become familiar with how it behaves and because there does seem to be some sentiment that room temp breeds the most vigorous starter, so that also falls under the category getting to know it. If I maintain at what should be it's peak, I'll know later what sluggish looks like.
Also, for now, I don't want to think past the one recipe. I need some simple, straightforward success before I start branching out. The VT sourdough is presently bulk fermenting :-).
Hodor for the help, drogon!
The reason for the "funny" numbers in Hamelman's book and many other recirpies is that everybody used to work in ounces and 1 ounce rounds to 28 grams. And in case you hadn't tumbled to it Jeffery Hamelman IS King Arther's master baker.
If you are not baking sourdough every week, you can keep your starter in the refrigerator quite successfully by removing most of the "old" starter and periodically feeding it a 50/50 by weigh flour and water. I have a KA starter that I have kept several years this way. Doesn't Hamelman mention this also?
Also you can use the "discarded" starter many ways. Check out the KA website.
Indeedy, there have already been sourdough waffles :-), but thanks for pointing it out in case I was unaware.
If I could change one thing about KA and JH is that they both still use pounds and ounces instead of grams. Why, JH, why did you not stick with grams when listing the home baker's formulas? Though KA is even worse, lots of recipes with cups.
Hilda,
If you use the KA web site for recipes, there is often the option to get grams. I guess it's the older recipes that don't have the option. I usually do the volume or ounces to grams conversion as I'm pre-reading the recipe. I share your pain!
There are countless ways to maintain and use starters but they're not all equally suitable for all bakers. For instance, keeping 10g or some other tiny amount of "mother" starter is fine if you're willing to build the amount of starter that actually goes into your dough before every bake. In my case, I prefer to skip this step most of the time by keeping enough starter so that I have enough for most of the recipes I bake.
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The starter a purist would use for traditional panettone isn't the white one you would keep for a white SD bread. The one for a 100% rye bread doesn't have white flour in it either. Some traditional Rye breads require a rye starter to be made from scratch. Some breads require a Desem Starter, some require a stiff on and others a very liquid one. p make Joe Ortiz's Champagne you need to make his cumin, milk and WW starter. Some breads require a potato starter or a corn meal one if you are looking to be authentic.
Some make all these breads using what ever starter they have and just try to modify it so one starter fits all situations. I personally don't care what other people do and don't care if they like what I do with starters but we can agree the starter doesn't care either!
Happy SD baking ..
Holy Moses, I have Finally produced some really good looking bread.
We moved into a newly renovated house last year in which I had installed a big 6 burner gas range and I've been having terrible trouble with bread ever since. All the reading I've done on this site (and elsewhere) finally got through to me that the problem was the oven. My ice in a hot pan trick was just not cutting it. So I went the dutch oven route, and voila!
However, when I cut into the loaves, they don't have as many big beautiful holes as most of the pics I see posted here. I'm guessing they were under-proofed a bit going in? Any other suggestions? (This is assuming the pics actually post.)
I've got to get cranking on chores, I'll come back later and see if I can figure out how to get the pics to come through.
As I mentioned before, I think the crumb is a little more dense than ideal, not that I'm not delighted with these loaves.
Ears! I made ears!