January 10, 2016 - 12:20pm
Starting starter-natural vs yeast
All my life, I was taught to make a sourdough starter using dry active yeast in your initial starter. It has only been recently that I have learned that's not how it is done. I was wondering though, since your wild yeast changes with time and location to adapt to local flora, would a starter that was started with dry active yeast eventually change to accommodate the natural wild yeast around it? My thinking is that a lot of people say that even if you get "authentic" San Francisco sourdough and transplant it somewhere else, within a couple of feedings in its new climate, it will no longer be true San Francisco sourdough. Would that be true with starting your sourdough using dry active yeast?
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My understanding of this is that as the acidity of the starter increases the yeast will be replaced by wild yeas. So over the course of a few weeks you would have starter populated by wild yeast.
Gerhard
Yes, eventually it will turn into sourdough with natural yeast.
The only question is why would you want to use dry yeast for your starter? It will only take longer to get the wild yeast that way.
It may take longer to get the wild yeast that way, but I have been trying to get a wild yeast starter going for several weeks now, and am not getting anywhere with it, plus I've gone through almost an entire 5 lb. bag of flour with no results. I was wondering if I got some starter from my dad who has a two year old starter that he originally started from live active yeast, if that would be mostly wild yeast now or not.
To get the starter started use whole grain flour, rye, or wheat and try the pineapple juice solution of Debra Wink. (Use the "search" box in the upper right corner of this page.)
Ford
local airborne fungi. The LAB come from the flour so where ever your wheat used to make the starter was grown is where your 'Local' fungi will come from. Since the LAB in an established starter has a head start and a large advantage, the LAB in the flour you feed your stater will have a hard time overcoming the multitude of the existing LAB. Can your starter change to a different combination of LAB? Yes but it isn't an easy task.
Any commercial yeast added to an existing established starter will be wiped put within 2 feedings of 24 hours each according to experiments devised to test how long it will take for the acid to wipe them out.
Of course, there is a difference between the yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae or S. exiguus, depending on whether you use commercial dry yeast or 'catch' wild yeast) and the lactic acid bacteria (LAB). As I understand it, the yeast mainly produces gas to give 'rise' to the dough, while the LAB contribute more to the flavour (and also help digest the proteins in the flour, making it more digestible). This is why a sourdough made with wild yeast and a LAB-infested starter tastes quite different from bread made with a poolish starter (flour, water and a bit of commercial yeast).
into the sugars that yeast and LAB eat. Yeast make CO2 and ethanol while LAB make lactic and acetic acids although, under certain conditions, LAB can also make ethanol and CO2 It is the protease enzymes found in flour hat break down proteins into amino acids making them more digestible and adding flavor e smpounds beyond the one yeast and LAB provide in bread.
Thanks dabrownman, you are of course correct. I was trying to differentiate between yeasts and bacteria and their affects on starters and bread without getting too technical for the purposes of the post, which resulted in inaccuracies. I am a "Lazy Loafer" after all; couldn't be bothered to look up all the right science to post it correctly! :)
If you want to give it another shot to make a starter from scratch, use small amounts. Right before every daily refeed discard all but 1 oz and add 1oz of flower and 1 oz of pineapple or lemon juice. After a few days you can switch to water instead of juice.
This way it will only cost you half a pound of flower per weer to feed the starter.