San Joaquin Sourdough with 36-hour retard
Hi everyone,
I haven't posted for a while, and with a particularly hectic schedule, sourdough baking has taken a back-seat to yeasted doughs made in the bread machine (bad me, but, hey, sometimes life is just busy).
Christmas Day was my first real chance for a break, and with dinner planned for the evening, I was able to make a version of the lovely San Joaquin Sourdough - which sat in the fridge to retard for about 36 hours, rather than the 21 hours that David gives in his revised recipe.
I'm reasonably pleased with the results. Here are a few notes about this bake:
I'm using European strong flour and needed to reduce the hydration to 58% as (1) our flours are less absorbent than those in the US and (2) I want to gain more experience in shaping doughs that are a bit easier to handle - I'm suprised that even at 58% hydration, I got some largish holes in the crumb.
The 36-hour retard was more accident than design. I didn't have time to bake on Boxing Day, and woke up the following morning wandering if I'd have a tub of dough or glue waiting for me in the refrigerator. I'll see how this will influence the final taste when I get to eat them later.
As a very thoughtful Christmas gift, my parents bought me some non-stick dough-handling gloves made from knitted polyester - they seem to work very well, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they cope as I gently nudge-up the hydration in coming months.
Here's the quantities for the total loaf (9% of flour used in preferment):
- Allinson strong bread flour: 545g (90.9%)
- Dark rye flour: 27g (4.5%)
- Whole wheat flour: 27g (4.5%)
- Water: 348g (58.0%)
- Salt: 11g (1.8%)
- Seed starter: 55g (9.1%)
The bâtards were made in two small linen-lined cane banettons, dusted with rice flour. Course ground maize used on top before turning onto the peel, and I've been a bit more successful with a Baker's lame. The loaves were cooked on a heavy pre-heated oven stone, with steam from a cast iron pan on the base of the oven.
On the whole, I'd say I'm making some good progress with sourdough and really appreciate the help and advice received previously from the active members of this forum. Comments - as ever - are very welcome.
Best wishes and hope that you all have fantastic bakes planned for 2016.
Colin
I can't imagine it at 58% hydration and getting those big holes but the flour in the UK requires less water. Very well done and Happy baking to you in 2016 Colin.
Thanks very much. I haven't come any close to David's mighty loaves, nor many of the other fine bakers on here. But I'm going in the right direction.
The 74.5% hydration in the original recipe (for American flours) caused an impossible sticky mess with European bread flour (at least it did when I tried it several times)! 58% with my flour is OK to handle when it's cold.
I'd be particularly interested to hear from others in the UK how far they can push hydration with strong bread flour - I use Allinson, which is thirstier than some others I've tried.
Happy baking, and I look forward to reading your posts in 2016.
Still being in the mechanical stage, and not quite into the esoteric stage of my evolution as a baker, I am primarily delving into technique at this point. (Although I am also wading through the reading recommended to me by Dabrownman too, thus attempting to become versed in theory as well.)
I wonder if at a molecular level the hydration amounts between the two flours are equivalent?
What I mean by this is that, I'm assuming, water added to flour is absorbed by the flour to an extent as great as each particle of starch can hold, then any extra water should be flowing between the waterlogged starch particles. That would make a dough similar to a colloidal suspension - albeit a rather thick one.
So if the Allinson flour is saturated, then has an amount of free water surrounding it at 58% proportional to the amount of free water surrounding a US flour hydrated to 74.5%, would that account for the large holes in your crumb? Also, by this same reasoning, if you attempt to increase your hydration to 74.5% with Allinson flour would that be equivalent to a proportionally higher hydration in US flour, giving you a product akin to ciabatta?
Again, I'm just beginning to touch on the tip of the iceberg of flour chemistry, so I'm wondering if I'm even close on this or completely out in left field?
Any commentary would be completely welcome.
--Mike
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for your post. While I'm no chemist or physicist, your reasoning sounds good.
I'm not sure that 58% hydration of Allinson flour is the maximum possible.
I was working with this flour in the mid-sixty percentitles a couple of weeks ago and things were ok, but just too wet to handle for my level of experience - you know the point where the dough just sticks to everything, and either demands too much extra flour or just wants to be dumped in a banetton without any shaping at all.
My plan is to gradually increase the hydration in this recipe (I have it set-up in a spreadsheet for convenience) to see how far I can go. In the meantime I'm producing acceptable loaves and getting more experienced in shaping. The loaf in this post feels like the first one I've made where the shaping went pretty-much as you see demonstrated by the professional bakers on YouTube videos.
Good luck with your own learning curve. I hope the reading you are doing is really illuminating. Happiy baking in 2016!
Best, Colin.
Lovely bakes. Yes, a good open crumb for quite a low hydration.
While European flours do need less water there is still a range from low hydration to high hydration before it becomes too hydrated. 58% is quite low. I have generally found 5% is a good rule of thumb between the two flours. And also taking into account now what I thought was over hydrated could have been also gluten not formed too well. So a bit of both. A European bread flour when handled well can easily go up to 65% hydration (and even up to 71% when handled well) unlike North American flours that can go up to 75% hydration or more when handled well. I'm comfortable at 65% and if I'm feeling adventurous, and have the strength, then slightly higher.
Hi Abe,
Many thanks for your post, and the observation that around 5% reduction in hydration works for you when compensating for the generally lower absorption of European flours.
I can probably say that the 58% hydration used in this loaf is a starting point to get something I can handle during pre- and final shaping, and I can work upwards from here as experience increases.
Your nite about gluten development is really useful. I am also wondering whether I can work on this a bit more. I am resisting the temptation to use a KitchenAid mixer, but working in a fairly small kitchen, I haven't got sufficient counter space to slap-and-fold comfortably. I'll give it some thought.
Best wishes and happy baking for 2016! Colin
It's a funny old world...
I typically use a flour called: Shipton Mill No. 4. It's an organic white flour made from a mix of Canadian and English wheats (according to their web site). It comes out at 12% protein and thus gluten. My "Sourdough Blonde" is is 63% hydration loaf. I can push it to 70% before it becomes unworkable, but then I get more complaints than usual about it (too many holes!!!) The unworkable bit is not that it really is unworkable, but when you have a dozen of them to scale, pre-shape, shape and proof it just takes much longer.
I also have a bag of Canadian Manitoba flour from Marriages. (or what's left of it - 16Kg). Now that I have pushed to 75%. It's also 14.9% protein. It's a very different beast indeed. Makes good ciabatta and chewy rather than fluffy white bread.
(And just as a side-note, Marriages normal organic white flour is also about 14% protein and I'm looking to move to Marriages in the new year from Shipton Mill for a variety of reasons - one is that the supply 16Kg sacks rather than Shiptons 25Kg sacks)
I do think you need to make bread according to what you actually like - or in my case, what my customers like... the UK does not have a tradition of big open-crumb/holey breadm nor does it have a tradition of sourdough. For a few 100 (as far as I can tell), years we've had close textured bread - full of flavour and texture due to the traditional sponge & dough method until Chorleywood took over 50 years ago )-:
You do find small pockets of alternative bread types though - European migrants setting up shop, or UK travellers bringing back cookery secrets from exotic places (or just France ;-) Hobbs house have been making a sourdough for the pas 60 years and 25 miles from me is a bakery called "Continental Crumbs" who make mostly German/European style breads. There is also a nice French boulangerie not too far from me - their baguettes come out at 63% hydration. (Although I think mine taste nicer ;-)
I might have a go at a 75% hydration loaf in the next few days (with my usual Shipton Mill flour), but am currently suffering from advanced and near terminal form of man-flu, so who knows...
-Gordon
is deep long and storied. While it is true that most bread, like very where else was made with barm before commercial yeast was introduced in the later 1870's or so. English Sourdough go at least back to Roman times and likely before that. I found this after one minute of searching
[1747]
"Receipt for making Bread without Barm, by the Help of a Leaven.
Take a Lump of Dough, about two Pounds of your last making, which has been raised by Bar, keep it by oyu in a wooden Vesse, and cover it well with Flor. This is your Leaven; then the Night before you intend to bake put the said Leaven to a Peck of Four and work them well together with warm Water. Let is lye in a dry wooden Vessel, well covered with a Linnen Cloth and a Blanket, and keep it in a warm Place. This Dough kept warm will rise against next Moring and will be sufficent to mix with two or three Bushels of Flour, being worked up with warm Water and a little Salt. When it is well worked up, and thoroughly mixed with all the Flour, let it be well covered with the Linen and Blanket, until you find it rise; then knead it well, and work it up into Bricks, or Loaves, making the Loaves broad, and nnot so thick and high as is frequently done, bu which means the bread will be better bakaed: Then bake your bread. Always keep by you two or more Pounds of the Dough of your last baking well cover'd with Flour to make Leaven to serve from one baking Day to another; the more Leaven is put to the Flour the lighter and spongier the Bread will be, the fresher the Leaven, the Bread will be less sour. Fromm the Dublin Society."
---The Art of Cookery Made Plain & Easy, Hannah Glasse, facsimile 1747 edition [Prospect Books:Devon] 1995 (p. 151)
Even though SD is ancient it wasn't ever the dominant bread baking anywhere for 4,000 years except where barm wasn't available and people were traveling where no beer was being brewed. For much of that time in many places SD was considered inferior bread. Still, SD methods and traditions hung on, but you are right..... it wasn't what you would call traditional bread in most cities in the UK, just like the US but it didn't quite die either.
Since the early 90's, traditiona SD bread baking has been resurrected from near death all around the world and considered cutting edge today even though there hasn't been anything much new about it for a very, very long time indeed.
Happy Holiday baking Gordon
May I point out, again, that while you seem to use the word 'sourdough' to describe any culture of wild yeast, we don't. There are lots of different ways of keeping a culture and they all have different names. What Hannah Glasse describes is what is now known over here as pate fermentée and it does not produce sour bread. There are instances of 'sour dough' being mentioned in British English but referring to pate fermentée as sourdough originates in the States in the mid-nineteenth century.
Nowhere I've been in Europe have I ever come across a local bread which is anything like the bread relatively recently being promoted in the UK as 'sourdough', which I assume is the same as what you call sourdough. If what you make tastes like the stuff sold here under the brand 'La Brea', which I understand is an American bakery now selling American sourdough in the UK, then it is unlike anything I've ever had anywhere in Europe. I have had European breads with a slightly acidic tang to them, particularly those containing some rye, but never one which is actually sour. I would remember as I find the stuff almost unpalatable and would not forget having previously tasted it.
Words common to American and British English can have subtly or radically different meanings. If you read a word written in British English and interpret as if it had been written in American English you are highly likely to find yourself labouring under a misapprehension, as you most definitely are in this instance. Conversely, if you use a word in the American English context when speaking to a Brit who is unfamiliar with the American context, you won't be communicating your intended meaning to them.
it comes to bread matters of any kind. We have only be around for about 400 years and as a country for 240 years. Bread stuff is ancient - almost all of it is ancient going back thousands of years. The bread making traditions in the UK go back at least a thousand years longer than anything found in the USA.
'May I point out, again, that while you seem to use the word 'sourdough' to describe any culture of wild yeast, we don't. '
This is in face value - totally nonsensical. A sourdough starter is an ongoing culture where a mixture of yeast and LAB live in a symbiotic relationship. I have one - a rye sour that is aged in the fridge for up to 20 weeks. I also maintain a Yeast Water starter currently fed with apples. I don't ever, no never call it a Sourdough starter because it isn't one since it has no sour or LAB component. even though it too stays for up to 20 weeks in the fridge at a time with no maintenance.
These are the 2 I usually have hanging around, but, as luck would have it, I also have two new other natural starters on hand I have cultured over then last 3 weeks. One is Witch Yeast made with raw potatoes and cornmeal and potato boiling water and the other is a cornmeal and milk one that had mashed cooked potato added on day 4. In the last 2 weeks I have made bread with both and never once, not ever did I call them SD starters. I'm pretty sure they have some kind of yeast in them since the breads rose wonderfully and I bet they have some LAB in there somewhere - at least the cornmeal ones might since corn is a grain. But neither is fed with grain just potato and potato water. I'm not sure what they are but they are aren't sourdough starters. They are called Witch Yeast and Cooked Potato Starter since that is what Clayton called them.
I can't think of one case where I called a bread a sourdough one that wasn't actually a SD bread. Why you think I do is beyond me but maybe you can explain why you think this to be so?
About the only things I can think of that Americans contributed to bread is the commercialization of barm yeast by the Fleischman's, cross breading grain stocks to create hybrids and helping to bring back SD bread baking from near death like so many other bakers from around the world since the 90's - including ones in the UK.
The SD bread baking traditions in the UK are at least 1,000 years older than the ones in the USA but they are very old in Europe and Ancient in the Middle East. The rough rule of thumb is that Egyptians taught SD to the Greeks who taught it to the Romans who taught it to French, Germans and Brits who taught it to everyone else. This probably isn't technically true since the Egyptians learned likely learned it for the the Mesopotamians.
Old dough process, nothing but a preferment, what the French call Pate Fermentee came in three ways before the advent of commercial yeast. One was sourdough based, one was beer barm based and one was a mixture of the two. The last one was the preferred way to make bread in England, part SD and part barm, before the Brits converted over to the barm based bread making process of' sponge' and dough using barm only.
The English were no different than anyone else in the world. Most people do not like sour bread so most bread produced from ancient times by a very, very wide margin is non sourdough made with barm yeast. Even though SD is ancient, and the method transferred all over the world including the UK long ago, not much bread was made using it because people prefer non sour bread and making barm bread is as old a SD with it too coming out of ancient Egypt as well. Barm bread is also easier and faster to make
Us poor Americans came along so late to the party most everything worth doing in bread had already been done for hundreds and thousands of years. We had nothing to do with Pate Fermentee which is an ancient way of making bread using old dough saved from one bake to the next. The term is French because that is what they called it. The term was supposedly brought to the USA by French bakers from Acadia when they were kicked out of there and resettled in Louisiana. The British Colonies wouldn't let them settle there nor did they want to settle with the Brits. They were also the ones who took SD to SF during the gold rush. But, the old dough method of making bread had been brought to the British colonies on the East coast of the USA long before. Do you want to guess who brought the SD, barm based and combo of the two old dough bread making processes to the British Colonies? Well the Dutch brought it to New Amsterdam - now called New York but someone else was at work too.
You, being a chemist by training, will easily recognize, unlike most others, one of the most famous British chemists of the mid 19th century, Henry Watt. His book 'Dictionary of Chemistry and the Allied Branches of Other Sciences= 1868' has a fine chapter on bread where he discusses the chemistry of SD and other breads of the day including the 3 old dough processes in England. Here is page from the chapter
https://books.google.com/books?id=b58-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA657&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false
I also find it odd that you haven't been able to track down a loaf of SD bread in Europe since all of our SD traditions of SD bread making in the USA come only from there - where the rich traditions of SD were carried on for hundreds and thousands of years in France, Germany, Italy and Greece where SD breads are legend. You can't go anywhere in Europe without finding some of the best SD bread in the world. Even our supposedly famous SFSD is nothing more than a weak sour French Country SD and it is not as good as it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's....at least not in my book.
La Brea SD today is a sub standard, factory made, par baked SD bread from LA. Nothing of note in any way other than Nancy Silverton was one of the first bakers to cash in on mega corporate money when she was bought out.
You give us poor, blameless Americans way, way, too much credit and the Brits not nearly enough when it comes to SD and old dough bread traditions Jon.
We are not the only two peoples separated by a common language :-) But history tells the tale.
Happy baking
Hi Gordon,
Many thanks for your reply, and I hope you have recovered somewhat from that nasty case of man-flu.
I agree that we don't have a recent tradition of large-holed bread in the UK, but I think a lot of people are exposed to a wide range of products. I was wondering if this might be even more so in London and the South East, but it might lead to accusations of being too Londo-centric. It might be more an urban rural thing?
Best of Lucy moving from Shipton Mill to Marriages flour. I hope your customers like the new loaves as much as they like your current ones. Happy baking for 2016!
Colin
Hi Colin,
The SJSD dough is a delight to work with, and it looks as though you are there! I'd never guess that those gloves were for handling dough, as they look more like oven temperature tolerant gloves. Knowing that they were a gift from the Folks, this may seem to not be in the Christmas spirit - but have you considered getting latex or vinyl gloves to use instead? They come as both powdered and non-powdered on the inside, and they give a more "intimate" feel of the dough than I imagine the polyester gloves do.
Congratulations on a lovely bake!
alan
Hi Alan,
What a kind comment about these loaves - high praise indeed.
The polyester gloves are a very snug fit, and weren't at all difficult to work with.
As it happens, I was an operating room nurse for many years, so am well acquainted with latex gloves - so much so that I developed a mild sensitivity to the starches used in the older powdered gloves.
I haven't used latex or vinyl gloves with dough, but I imagine it would stick like glue. Have you (or any TFL readers) tried?
Very best wishes and happy baking for 2016!
Colin
Colin,
I tried latex once, and I just didn't like the feel of them at all. But I use powdered vinyl gloves all the time for hand mixing and then for the divide and shape. During mixing, they will, of course, be coated in some level of ingredients, just as bare hands are. But during the divide and shape phase the dough never sticks to them. Hydration levels that I use are rarely below 70%, usually at 75% or above. And even sticky doughs like rye and very high hydration doughs like the Jason Molina Ciabatta, which clocks in at 95% hydration, never cause a problem.
Give them a try, they fit like a glove ;-) . alan
Hi Alan,
How interesting! Thanks very much for that additional post and photo. Do you know what the gloves are powdered with? I assume it will be very fine maize flour, but would be useful to know what's being introduced to the dough, even in very small quantities.
For surgery, latex gloves certainly gave a superior feel - and you want a glove that can be donned without any ridges or air-pockets between skin and glove, as this increases the risk of glove puncture on surgical instruments - I add this just for interest, not because it is particularly significant for home baking!
Best wishes, Colin.
Colin and alan
My experiences are much the same as yours, including a sensitivity to either the latex or the powder.
Lately I've been using powder-free Nitrile gloves with no issues and as long as my hands are dry, they go on fine.
dobie
Hi Dobie,
Glove sensitivities can be caused either to the starch (as for me) or the vulcanising process used to give latex its flexibility. The latter is far more inconvenient, as people who experience this generally find the are sensitive to a whole range of other products which contain latex. This almost ended the career of one of my colleagues in the operating department.
Nitrile gloves should be the least sensitivity-producing gloves of all, so I'm glad to hear that they aren't causing you problems.
Happy baking,
Colin
USP = United States Pharmacopeial, not to be confused with the US Postal Service, or United Parcel Service!
To be clear, it is the interior of the glove that is powdered, not the outside, so nothing is transferred to the dough itself.
I get them in a "to the trade" food supply store here in the US which is open to the public. These come in 100 count boxes with and without powder. If you like the idea but don't want the powder, but they are difficult to slip on your hands because of that, try dusting your hands with a light coating of flour - I use AP flour sometimes. Works every bit as well, and- we all have plenty of it on hand, as well as on our hands...
They are pretty inexpensive too. A box runs something like $4US, so they are pretty economical over the course of lot of bakes.
Hi again Alan,
We have a similar system to USP in the UK (BP = British Pharmoacopaea"). Vinyl gloves are readily available too, and often used in catering. I can believe that the interior gloves only are starched, but some will no doubt escape to the exterior? This might worry some people; It wouldn't me, because I use ground maize with the peel...
I hope your notes are useful to lots of other people on TFL too :-)
Happy baking!
Colin
I have just started using non-powdered, vinyl gloves for bread making, as i started to develop baker's dermatitis (likely a sensitivity to the protein in the flour, exacerbated by the acids in the starters). I didn't want to try latex because of the likelihood of sensitivity to the proteins in the latex. The vinyl gloves work just fine. I got a box of 100 of them from the local drug store (chemist). I'm now a lot happier hand-mixing large quantities of autolyze and dough, even very wet ones. I just rinse my hands (with the gloves on) under the tap if they get too gummed up - making them wet is a lot like wetting your hands when stretching and folding wet dough.
Hi Lazy Loafer,
Thanks for your post. I had noticed the drying effect of a lot of sourdough mixing myself a month or two ago. Although I wasn't aware of 'bakers' dermatitis', it certainly makes sense. The wetting of vinyl gloves sounds like a good idea, and - yes - I could imagine how this will be just like doing stretch and folds (only a bit less messy).
I hope your hands have recovered from the start of dermatitis too!
Happy baking in 2016!
Colin
I have no experience with UK flours, but the SJSD crumb you got is very nice indeed. Some of the large holes may be due to proteolysis associated with the longer cold retardation. I have done a 36 hour retardation without any dramatic difference in the final product.
Maybe I missed it, but how was the flavor of your breads?
In any case, you certainly produced visually stellar loaves.
Best wishes for the new year with happy baking!
David
Hi David,
Very many thanks for your kind comments on this most recent bâtards, they are so encouraging for a developing baker.
I can't say that I notes an appreciable flavour difference between 21 and 36 hours or retarding - which could be that I'm less of a bread connoisseur than I'd like to be. It was, however, a useful practical way to show how you have a degree of latitude pin how long dough can be retarded.
Very best wishes for the New Year and happy baking.
Colin
Thanks to Dabrownman and Jon for your lively discussion.
I was digging around in Clayton several years ago for an Irish Soda Bread recipe for St. Patrick's day dinner and ran across a Barmbrack recipe in his book which calls for yeast. Then a few years later in Reinhart's BBA he makes his Basic Sourdough Bread with what he calls a "barm," which actually looks to be a poolish made from his rye-based seed starter.
Then from the discussion mentioned above it became clear that my perception of what Barm is was somewhat erroneous. It wasn't in the TFL glossary so, of course, I consulted the oracle known to us all as Wikipedia and found:
BarmBarm is the foam, or scum, formed on the top of liquor – fermented alcoholic beverages such as beer or wine, or feedstock for hard liquor or industrial ethanol distillation – when fermenting I love this site! I learn something new every time I log in. However, it was a bit disconcerting to discover that two of my favorite bread authors were giving an inaccurate description of the concept. --MikeIn ye-olden days a barm was a liquid that could sustain yeast growth - a mixture of boiled wort (extract of malted barley) and hops. Yeast would be introduced into that to create a pre-ferment for beer and bread.
I suspect over the years meanings and definitions change...
Also note country changes - I'm in the UK - it may have other/different meanings elsewhere!
Happy new year.
-Gordon
... - I'm in the UK - it may have other/different meanings elsewhere!
I'd just like to emphasise that point by repeating it, in the [probably futile] hope of saving more forehead bruises in the future.
merely the growth medium for the culture?
So does that mean sourdough, yeast water, witches' yeast, and all the other variations could technically be referred to as barms? I (possibly mistakenly) assumed the barm in the wikipedia article provided the yeast as a by-product of the brewing process.
--Mike
Barm is what was scraped off the top of fermenting beer. That was what was used to make bread and to inoculate the next batch of wort to make beer before commercial yeast was developed from beer barm after the Civil War.. There wasn't any commercial yeast available to do so like today - so barm was used going back to the ancient Egyptians and likely long before that.
with my understanding of barm as was used in bread making over 115 years ago described in The Modern Practical Bread Maker by Robert Wells. See the chapter On Yeasts and Barms.
-Gordon
Yes. Although the confusion appears not to be uncommon.
Elizabeth David, in English Bread and Yeast Cookery (Penguin, 1979, p.98) says, parenthetically: "barms are the liquors in which yeast grows, not, properly speaking, the yeast itself...". Which suggests that some people speak improperly of them.
But she's a British culinary historian. It's entirely possible that the term is used differently in other countries, as with 'sourdough'. Peter Reinhart talks about taking a seed culture and making a 'barm or mother culture' with it. Not a drop of beer in sight.
Dictionary
Barm | Definition of Barm by Merriam-Websterwww.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barm How about this https://breadcakesandale.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/real-beer-barm-bread/ Or this one http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barm My favorite one the BBC Food Blog since some of the English Fresh Lofians seem to be ones ill informed Any malted grain heated to 150 F is called mash. Any mash that is fermenting is called Wort and any foam that rises to the top of the fermenting wort is called barm. This barm was used to inoculate bread with yeast for thousands of years and to inoculate the next batch of beer. It has been that way for about forever or as long as there has been English. The process and terminology is much older though…. going back to ancient Egypt. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/food/2011/07/the-ale-barm-method-worthy-of.shtmlHi David,
Just discovered another thing about this site that I like: after following this thread for several days, I was trying to find the recipe for another of your breads - the Italian San Joaquin Sourdough - and I happened onto your personal recipe index. This is awesome! Now I'll surely be checking out some more of the advanced folks' profiles like yours, Dabrownman, MiniOven, etc., for more cool recipes. All the tweaks and tips have already been worked on - It's like grandma's recipe card box to the power of 10! ;-)
As to my questions... upon just a cursory review of your formulae, I've seen a few different terms used for your choice of leavening.
In the formula Colin refers to above, http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24078/san-joaquin-sourdough-update, you cite 150g of 100% hydration starter.
In another formula, http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/42511/sourdough-italian-baguettes, you describe building your levain from 40g liquid starter.
Then in another 'Italian' version, http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/25413/italiansan-joaquin-sourdough, you write 100g active liquid levain
I'm assuming "active liquid levain" is most likely the same as "100% hydration starter", but when you refer to "liquid starter" are you meaning something like a yeast water to build the levain with?
Also, the 25413 post above is from Oct, 2011, and the 42511 post is from May, 2015. Is your Italian version of the SJSD still in a process of evolution, or are you pretty satisfied with the current rendition? I only ask because I think it would be fun to "bake my way through" your formulae the way folks here talk about baking their way through Reinhart or Hamelman.
Thanks!
--Mike
I don't want to hijack Colin's topic, so I'll be super brief (for me).
First, the recipe index is not a system feature. It is a Blog topic I created. You can create one too, if you want.
Second, "Liquid levain" ≠ 100% hydration levain (or starter) always, but they are usually the same. Baker's math is precise. Terms like "liquid" or "firm" are imprecise.
The link to the Italian SJSD gives you my current version of that bread. I like it a lot.
Happy baking!
David