The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

100% hyradtion

Digitalsmgital's picture
Digitalsmgital

100% hyradtion

I am new on the site, a seasoned baker, yet although I have maintained sourdough starters in the past for pancakes, I am learning and having fun experimenting and using my newly cultured starter for use in breads.

I have used the new starter twice now,  yielding great results (thanks drogon for the tutorial blog)!

Today I converted a portion of my new starter to a rye starter by feeding it with 100% hydrated rye flour paste. (Twice) After mixing the paste I saw how thick and gummy the equal amounts of rye flour/water was compared to the AP flour mix I have used the last three weeks, but just a few hours later, the starter relaxed and "watered up" and took off like a rocket. A question then; how does the feeding change consistency, from a thick gum to a "normal" starter?

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drogon's picture
drogon

for the record, I keep my Rye starter at 150% hydration... After using it and topping up the jar it will be a bit looser after a day in the fridge though.

-Gordon

Bob S.'s picture
Bob S.

Rye flours (especially dark rye flour) requires much higher hydration levels that AP flour to achieve the same consistency. The "gumminess" of rye dough is probably due to the high level of pentosans in rye flour. These gummy carbohydrates are broken down over time when subjected to an acidic environment, which is provided by lactic acid bacteria (LAB) in the starter sponge.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

can be carried over to your sourdough bread dough.  If mixing a dough by feel. you will notice the dough loosening up as it ferments.  That is the major reason for many sourdough recipes to incorporate folding the dough during the bulk rise to maintain dough shape and keep it from turning into a puddle of dough.  

Rye "gluten" structure is a weak one that has a stricter working time than a wheat dough. It falls apart much sooner and rye dough gets stiffer at the same low temps as wheat.  When retarding or chilling rye starter, you will also notice it can rise and dome and maintain that dome even after the starter below the surface has long fallen to the bottom of the starter jar creating a hollow space.  In a loaf, that would be over-proofed.  So it never hurts to poke the starter while observing it.

Sifted fine flours tend to absorb less water than their whole grain counterparts.  Whole grains tend to ferment faster.  Rye will also ferment faster than wheat and when mixed with wheat shorten overall wheat dough fermenting times.  Wheat will lengthen rye fermenting times.  

Digitalsmgital's picture
Digitalsmgital

For your time and expertise!

Bob, I have read about pentosans being in the 'gummy' cell walls and can imagine the barrier being broken down by the LAB and maybe the water is released in this process? Fascinating stuff...

Gordon/drogon I may feed my rye starter with your 150% the next time around...I wish you had a blog post on rye bread too! ;)

Mini thank you for your in-depth insight to my observation; Indeed my rye starter did exhibit the very characteristic you describe, i.e. a hollow space under an exaggerated dome bursting out of my container...this whole microbial extravaganza taking place in my kitchen makes me giddy with excitement!

I do so love to ferment grains and milks and fruits and vegetables, so much so that I think my wife fears for my health and sanity...but truly, where would the human race be without this amazing process that took place in relative secrecy and shadows for so long, misunderstood by all yet practiced by many, changing juice into wine and milk to cheese and vegetables into superfoods like kimchi, sauerkraut and tempeh. It has been allowing the people to eat cheese three months after milking the goat, eat bread six months after harvesting the grain, drink beer, oh you get the idea, I can shut up now...

drogon's picture
drogon

Well.. Considering the vast quantity of comments on another recent thread which encompasses various rye breads (borodinsky, pumpernickel, etc.) and their "authenticity", who knows :)

 

My Rye breads are at the same time the easiest and hardest breads to make - easy as it's mix, pour, ferment, bake - hardest as there are just so many ways to make rye breads - let the starter rise/fall, scald the flour (all/some/none), make a 3-days starter every time, bake hot & short, cool and long, is adding caraway "authentic" and who cares about authentic anyway... (!!!)

I have a lot of blogs, recipe trials, experiments and just plain old fun to have over the festive period, so look out for something then.

-Gordon