December 5, 2015 - 4:48am
starter from scratch
Rank beginner here. This is my second try at a starter from scratch, and now I remember why I gave up on it last time.
I'm using fresh ground wheat and adding about equal parts water and fermenting it in a plastic wrap covered plastic measuring cup.
It's on day 3 now and doubling in size about with each feed, but it smells really bad. There is no sourness to it yet, just a cheesy sort of smell. Is that to be expected, maybe that's what fresh yeast smells like?
The last time I tried it the same smell and didn't want to go near it so I stopped.
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Let it ride and move it to another room, maybe skip a feeding but keep it above 75°F It has to get over this stinky phase to keep going.
Thank you for the advice. So I guess this is just a normal part of the process then. Maybe last time I gave up too early.There is a layer of water at the top of the jar, does this mean there is too much water in it? Also as far as re-feeding are you supposed to wait until it collapses or just keep feeding every day or 12 hours?
:) double post whoops!
Maybe last time I gave up too early. Maybe, most likely, 3 days isn't very long. A lot depends on temperature.
There is a layer of water at the top of the jar, does this mean there is too much water in it?
No, it means the flour and water are separating because there is little yeast activity. Not a problem but because the mixture is thin, it will not rise, you may see minute tiny bubbles forming in the flour and bubbling up to the surface to pop. Give it a good stir a couple times a day, nothing fancy, I just swirl the dish a bit when I walk by. Once yeast activity picks up, the starter will not separate.
Also as far as re-feeding are you supposed to wait until it collapses or just keep feeding every day or 12 hours?
Depends on your temperature. Over feeding can be easily done in the beginning, better to err on the side of too little than too much. Opinions vary on how much to feed and how often. I get the best results just feeding once a day with no discarding. Only a spoon of flour. Once the culture starts smelling like you're brewing something, ...yeasty, time to thicken it up with the next feed and see if it can trap gas and rise. I don't think your starter is there yet.
What are your temps?
It's in the oven with just the light on, guessing maybe 77f. The water layer has already incorporated in just an hour now, so there is a lot of activity. I'll go with the assumption that I gave up much too early in past tries, and keep this going for much more time until it smells good.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/245007#comment-245007
Careful, oven lights can get too hot. stick a thermometer in with it and jam a wooden spoon in the door so it's not completely shut. :)
An important part of the process you have to get through.
From here on in...
Feed only when you see activity
Should all go quiet then skip a feed. Very normal for it to go quiet after this initial leuconostoc activity.
Make sure you're feeding equal amounts by weight! 1:1:1 starter: water:flour
Patience
Reduced the overall volume, keeping about same ratios. After the last feed 3 days ago the bad smell mostly went away, turning into an alcohol smell. But no activity at all since then so I have not fed in 3 days.
Give it a stir, keep it warm and wait another day. Tomorrow try another feed then wait again. Sounds as if it might come to life very soon. Warmth is the key!
Fed it once in the past 5 days. Still a slight vomit smell mixed with alchohol and maybe a little sour but the sour could be wishful thinking. Still no activity. I find it interesting that it doesn't mold now but it hasn't come to life.
Then add back in 1/3rd water + 1/3rd flour by weight!
Make sure you're using unbleached flour and preferably rye or some other wholegrain in there. Try also using warm water which has been boiled and cooled.
Give it a good mix and then place in warm area.
In this case, not feeding is not a good idea. The cheesy smell and early expansion means a Leuconostoc grew. Some produce inhibiting substances that need diluting out, and feeding does that. It also dilutes acidity, so you don't want to feed to much. 2 parts starter to 1 part each flour and water once a day will do the job. In 3 days time you'll have 7/8 of it flushed out without setting everything back. Keep using your whole grain flour in the meantime and things will start progressing for you.
Best wishes,
dw
Edited to add: Don't keep this in the oven with the light on unless you know it won't get warmer than 85F. Anywhere in the 70's is fine for starters. Upper 60's will still work, even if a bit slower. 100F probably will not---that's what many oven lights will climb to after a few hours. Only trust a thermometer on this.
Good to hear you chime in. How have you been? This is why I always recommend your pineapple juice method. It has worked for me every single time.
Mav
Best wishes to you,
dw
The vomit goo was too much for my senses so it got chucked. Started over yesterday with fresh kamut flour and water. 24 hours later it had already doubled and was nice and bubbly with no bad smell. Lesson learned so far is that maybe the wheat I was using wasn't great or too fibrous, but it was labelled organic. Also I think the last one needed to be fed a lot more. This next batch I'm going to feed it white flour at least daily, maybe 2x daily. I can't remember exactly but maybe the first one also had matured very fast and was ready long before it went vomitose.
Wondering this: Going way back in time people probably fed their starters with whole grain flour, yes? Since I have a mill I'd like to be able to just grind up a few ounces of grain to feed the starter. What's the best whole grain to feed it with? I assume it would be the grain with the least fiber/most starch.