November 29, 2015 - 1:31pm
Wholemeal UK strength Spelt: some problems
My bread making is continuing to improve and thank you for you help. Roughly following this recipe http://breadtopia.com/spelt-bread-recipe/ I am experiencing some problems.
This is my ingredient mix:
- Active yeast 9tsp,
- Water 1050ml Warm,
- salt 3tsp,
- molasses 4.5tsp,
- spelt 1590g
This is my recipe (In order to reduce the difficulty I have of handling this much dough I put one third of everything in separate bowls). The above is the total of the 3 bowls and the following I do to the content of each bowl:
- Mix water, molasses, and yeast =A
- Mix spelt and salt =B
- Add B to A and mix by large wooden spoon
- Leave to rise overnight.
- In the morning stretch and fold every 15mins 3 times.
- At the end decant into 3 silicon moulds and leave to double.
- Cook 180c for 60min
Although this recipe is the best one I have used so far these are my problems:
- I find it almost impossible to stretch and fold the dough. It is difficult to handle. I do it but it is messy and slows down the whole process. I have tried lightly dusting the work surface with flour and it does not help as it sticks to the worksurface and is not easy to handle.
- I find I need to do the stretches because without them the air holes are too large and uneven. I also suspect not all the yeast is used up without the separate stretches and rises.
- Instead of the stretches has anyone got really good results from a dough hook that does not have the cross bar of the braun? It does not help that I would have to use the mixer in stages because the bowl is not big enough for the total amount of the dough.
- Instead of the stretches and folds has anyone found a recipe that gives consistent and reasonable air holes in the finished loaf?
- What temperature should I use? I am please with the taste and consistency of the loaves as I have been getting a good centre to the bread. However the crust is over cooked.Today I used 180c in a fan oven for 1hr and I am having to cut off the crust an I eat it. However I have found that if I under heat then the centre can be damp. I am not sure where the balance should be.
Robin
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My own spelt loaves run at about 60% hydration (+some honey) - yours seems to be 66% (+ the syrup). Spelt (and especially wholemeal spelt (mine are 30/60 whole/white) is a very soft dough - despite having a high gluten content.
However I can knead up a nice boulle - which then flows flat hanf an hour later. I mix all my stuff together, leave half an hour (autolyze if you like, but with salt & yeast - mine are sourdough) then knead and leave to prove. I just do a very quick knead - 30 seconds worth then leave it to ferment - overnight with sourdough. I don't think I've ever made a yeasted spelt... You seem to have a lot of yeast - I'd be using 6g of yeast in that amount of flour for an overnight rise (based on my overnight wholemeal wheats).
In the morning, I turn it out, do one stretch & fold, scale/shape/prove and bake.
Baking - 250°C for 12 minutes, then down to 200°C for another 20. Mine tend to go dark quick due to the honey caramelising
Spelts:
-Gordon
Gordon:
Thanks I felt I was using too much yeast but I assumed I would need it to ensure the rises in the morning.
Do you wait until the dough has risen to double again before baking but after the fold and stretch in the morning?
I don't go by dough size anymore - it's mostly personal judgement & experience based on feeling the proving dough - my spelt loaves are all sourdough, but the yeasted wheat wholemeal ones act in a similar manner. I've also never managed to get a "doubling" with 100% wholemeal flour though - wheat or otherwise.
I put this together a good while back: http://moorbakes.co.uk/sourdough-made-easy-part-1/ you might be able to tell by the photos the relative sizes of the dough proving and baking, but bear in-mind this is a mix of 30% wholemeal and 70% white rather than 100% wholemeal spelt.
-Gordon
Thank you for your comments. Very much appreciated.
Do you know how a knock back works in relation to 100% wholemeal spelt. I am wondering if I would get just as good a texture of the bread without using the stretch and fold. Have you tried the knock back method on spelt?
I feel that's a sort of old-fashioned term now. When I have the bowl/tub of fermented dough, I tip it out onto the counter without doing anything more to it than that - I use the rounded edge of a plastic bench scraper when removing from bowls (See some of Richart Bertiniets videos). So what I have after the initial ferment is a pile of somewhat slack dough which I then do a stretch and fold on a few times. This has the effect of giving the gluten a bit of strength which makes it easier to cut to size (I'm usually making 4 or 6 spelt loaves at a time) and also helps to distribute any existing bubbles without overly de-gassing it.
Then I roughly shape the bits then after a few minutes rest do the final shaping.
I use the same technique for both wheat and spelt loaves.
If I were making a 100% wholemeal, I'd probably do it the same way as I do my yeasted wholemeal loaves - I autolyze the flour & water for an hour or 2 before kneading, then mix in the yeast & salt and finish the kneading. (and then they get left overnight) I'm not sure how that would work for spelt though - never tried it!
-Gordon
I would like to suggest to try hanseata's Spelt bread with walnuts. I have made it already several times. It works like a charm and it is delicious! just type it in the search section.
I had a look at the recipe and it looks great, but I note that it requires:
210 g buttermilk (7.41 oz)
How important to the recipe is the buttermilk? I am a no added fat/ oil vegan.
I am using cultured buttermilk powder, designed for cooking and baking. Fat content less than 1% I think you could also use whey or just water maybe potatoe water ?. What I like about this formula is the schedule , not much handling and the sure success. May be you will find on this site other suggestions for the replacement of buttermilk.