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Starter Day 5, Made beer! what to do now...?

ao's picture
ao

Starter Day 5, Made beer! what to do now...?

As the title says, I've successfully made hooch... and really need some seasoned advice on what to do next. (the photo is of after I mixed the hooch back into the starter)

I must admit, I'm entirely new at sourdough. Infact, I don't even like sourdough, but my husband does, and I wanted to make a starter so i can bake some SD loaves for him. 

I followed the SD instructions with 2tbsp flour and 2tbsp grapefruit juice everday until day 4, where I discarded all but 1/4cups of the mixture. 

My starter is in the water  heating room which run at about 85F. Any temperature fluctuations in the houseis negligible   as I live in a very well insulated and heated basement apartment.

So, I started off with rye flour. For the first three days, my mixture smelled like rye, very pleasant.

On the third day, it started smelling a bit yeasty and had small bubbles. I had been feeding the starter frozen rye flour up to this point, and my forum readings pointed out to me that I should not be using frozen flour for a SD starter. I switched to 2tbsp grapefruit juice and 2tbsp WW flour.

On the fourth day, I believe I added too much juice on the previous day and the mixture was somewhat runny. It was frothy and smelled "yeasty" with a hint of alcohol.

I measure out 1/4 cups of the mixture and added 1/4 cups of cold boiled water and 1/4 cups of whole wheat flour, the mixture was still relatively runny.

today was day 5 and I came home to a layer of "hooch" separating the starter. It had a strong smell of alcohol, not a terrible smell, more like the smell of fermenting rice from when my grandpa made rice wine... I do not drink, so my perception of what a alcoholic smell is may be quite off!

I did some reading and chose to mixed it down while adding an extra 2 tbsps of flour to my starter. As I had forgotten to purchase filtered water today, I did not discard any starter.

Now here is my confusion...

The threads I read seem to have conflicting information on what to do with starters that smell like alcohol:

 

Some threads i read said to not feed the starter for a few days and to let it balance out.

Others mention that the alcohol is a sign of a starved starter and that it should be fed.

And some advised to throw it out and start over...

what should I do next????

Maverick's picture
Maverick

It is definitely hungry. I don't know how much you are feeding, but it seems to be ready for more frequent and/or larger feedings. Also, giving it a stir a few times a day helps a lot.

ao's picture
ao

Thank you Maverick! 

I guess I didn't expect my starter to have grown this much in only 5 days, I'll switch to doing the discard and feed every 12 hours and see if that works out.

how do I know when it's ready to be used? I prefer to not be throwing the starter away when feeding :(

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with the bath water and save what is left of your 5 day old starter as a back up just in case you need to.  Just cover and pop it into the fridge or a cold pantry.  Mark and date it.

12 hours is a rough estimate, watch the starter and respond to it after a feeding.  It may take longer or less than 12 hours. keep that in mind.  When the fed starter is rising, let it rise until it's dome reaches peak, starts to level out and starts to fall back down on it's own.  Then feed, you can save up the discard chilling it or use right away in a loaf or add to an existing yeasted loaf.  I usually build up that discard and let it go directly into a loaf.  Save the bit left over and feed as the new starter.  

What you are aiming for is a feeding that will peak in about 8 hours and feed at 12 hours for a routine.  Temperature will affect the starter so if they are cool at night, feed less flour for the night feeding.  

ao's picture
ao

Am I right in thinking peaking is the highest point my mixture will reach before falling? So far my starter has been too much of a slush to do this. I've thickened it up quite a bit today. Hoping to see it rise!

night temperatures are nice and warm, it's pretty constant in here :)

I'll get to a more accurate 1:1:1 feeding regime as soon as that scale from amazon gets here. 

dobie's picture
dobie

Ao

That is my understanding.

dobie

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

or active starter it means fed and peaked. Is this the optimum time to use a starter? Many believe it is. Can you use a starter from the fridge that peaked a few days ago? Yes, it'll still work but will just take longer. As with many things in sourdough there are so many ways and means.

For now it is a very good rule to follow. When experimenting you'll find it isn't the only rule.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

...and then start feeding it equal parts by weight. You'll be able to see it progress more.

I have been able to create a starter by feeding it every 24 hours at a ratio of 1:1:1 that is equal parts by weight of Starter : Water : Flour. So for example 50g starter : 50g Water : 50g flour. I wouldn't feed it anything less then that.

Step one add flour till it's a very thick batter. This will be a feeding. Then 24 hours later start your 1:1:1 feeding.

Once your starter is strong, predictable (rises on cue every time it is fed) and smells good then it is ready.

Feed it boiled water which has cooled down to room temperature in case of chlorine in tap water. Boil it to get rid of it then allow it to cool so as not to kill the yeasts. Luke warm is good. And keep your starter in a warm area.

Wholegrains, especially rye, are very good for starters. Why did freeze the flour? It isn't necessarily bad (won't kill it) but warmth is necessary for starters to thrive and yeasts to grow.

Just persevere and patience will pay.

drogon's picture
drogon

Take 30g of it, add 60g flour and 60g water, stir, leave for a few hours - if you get bubbles, then hurrah - read this and give it a go: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44111/easy-sourdough-part-1

-Gordon

ao's picture
ao

I really need a kitcehn scale don't I? :( But I've saved the link!

dobie's picture
dobie

Hi Ao

An ounce is 28.35g.

A scale would be a great addition.

Working in grams keeps the math real simple. Still trying to get comfortable with it myself tho.

Good luck.

dobie

ao's picture
ao

Well I've figured out the smell this morning. smells like ferment grapefruit juice! 

I've thickened it up even more for now, as it was still too runny. Will update :)

I've been too much of a casual baker to buy a digital scale in the past, but it looks like I will be needing one for this littlye venture.

What do you guys wipe down the edges with? paper towel?

dobie's picture
dobie

Ao

I use one of those little mini silicon spatulas for the inside walls.

If I gooped up the upper edge where the lid goes, then a bit of paper towel.

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

What does that mean?

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Gordon

I actually did laugh out loud. Very funny.

Now we know how the pro's do it, but Girl would not be happy if I did that, so...

Thank you for sharing so honestly.

BTW, do you like that scale? If so, what is it? I need to upgrade my scale to one that can be sensitive to at least 1g, hopefully up to 5 kilos or so and be accurate at both ends. Any recommendations?

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

Actually, I do clean the jars every few days, but its just a matter of scraping off the dried stuff off the outside with an old knife/fingernails.... I take the rubber seal off every few days too and clean it under the tap, but they do perish after about a year, so I have spares. That's the same jar I started that starter in some 5 years or so ago..

I rarely scrape down the insides - it depends what tool I use to mix it back up. That round wooden stick is a spurtle. (google it ;-)

The scales are KD8000. 8Kg in 1g increments. Not cheap, but they do take AA's. (3). The only down-side to them is that they're rather light, so skid about the bench if you're not careful. They can do bakers percentages too - the original reason I got them, however I've never used that function...

Units are changeable from grams to ounces (and lbs+oz) and there is a switch to turn the backlight on/off and the beeper... Batteries seem to last me 3-4 months of daily use.

As for accuracy - I also have a set of (expensive) "legal for trade" scales. These are calibrated and accurate. 0-3Kg in 1g steps. My cheaper KD8000's match them gram for gram, but are not legal for trade (in the UK), so can't use them for weighing stuff at point of sale.

Do check the scales though - we recently bought some cheap kitchen scales - and they are not accurate at all. They overweigh by enough to put my cake recipes out )-: An easy test is a 2lb or 1Kg bag of sugar - add a few g for the paper bag, but it's close enough.

A good feature of these scales (both sets I have) is that the platform comes off the scales - good for cleaning after weighing soft doughs.

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Gordon

A 'spurtle' you say. Interesting. I have one (I don't where from) and until now, had not a clue what to do with it. I thought it might be some sort of specialized rolling pin.

The 'MyWeigh KD8000' looks very interesting. I did a quick google/youtube search on them that pretty well concur with you assesment. They are available at $42-45, pretty reasonable I think. It meets or exceeds all my requirements and you vouch for it's accuracy, so what's not to like?

I know my current 'cheap' (but not by much less money) scale somehow can gain or lose 4 or more grams along the way of a build. That really bothers me. It is also only accurate to 2g.

I like the KD8000's removable stainless platform. I like that you can turn off the 'auto-shut off' feature as well as the 'backlight'. I like that it has a splash guard and that it is easily removable. I like that it has all the standard features of a digital scale. I also like the AA batteries, particulary with the newer 'long life' rechargables available now.

The lightweight scootching on the bench will not be an issue for me (I don't work frantic enough). It would have been nice if it were calibratable.

If there is any downside to me, it would be it's bulk (height in particular), but I suppose that's what allows you to read it even when using larger bowls. For all the positives, that is not a deal breaker to me.

As an aside, how expensive are the 'legal for trade' scales?

Thanks very much for the recommendation and review.

dobie

EDIT: I take it back, apparently it is calibratable.

drogon's picture
drogon

I guess you googled it, but a spurtle is a traditional Scottish porridge stirring stick. (I'm Scottish, so ...)

It just seemed a handy thing for me to use, so that's what I use it for (as I don't eat porridge that often!)

The KD8000 cost me about £44 in the UK from a convenient, but often pricey online place: http://bakerybits.co.uk/kd8000-bakery-scales.html actually they didn't cost me as they were a present...I don't use the splash guards on it. Found it just got in the way. The "chrome" paint over the plastic is wearing thin in places, but that's over 2 years of very regular use. e.g. tonight weighing out ingredients for what will become 30 loaves of bread tomorrow - and tomorrow using them to scale all that dough before shaping/proofing...

 

My trade scales cost 3 times that but have a front + rear display (so people buying stuff can see the weight/price) have the pricing stuff, so if I were selling stuff by the kilo, I could enter the price per kilo, weigh it then it would tell me the cost... They also have internal rechargeable batteries and can be mains powered while charging. (The KD8000 has a low-voltage power socket, but I've never used it)

However I rarely use them. I was told I had to have them by the local trading standards, but it turns out they were wrong for what I do. They're handy when making 2 cakes though as I can put my cake tins on each of the scales (the tins weigh significantly differently!) and divide the mix into 2 with ease.

And it's good to have a backup, I guess. Should the KD8000's fail, then I can use the others.

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Gordon

Actually, I didn't google spurtles, yet. I think I might start using it particularly when mixing up a poolish or levain. Probably as effective and easier to clean than a Dutch dough hook (altho that works quite well).

Regarding the KD8000, I don't anticipate using the 'bakers percentage' feature, as I am better off doing the math myself (with a calculator).

I'm sure the splash guard would be the first thing I altered and next, disable the auto-shut off. I can't imagine using the AC plug in, as when I'm out of rechargable AA batteries, the main electric's out anyway. A little wear and tear on the finish over time is fine with me, so long as the machine works well.

BTW - I was reading thru the KD8000 manual and discovered that it is in fact 'calibratable'.

I might just run down to WalMart in the next few days and pick one up.

My first scale was an EKS and was sensitive to 5g. My current Salter is sensitive to 2g. So this will be a good (and not terribly expensive) upgrade, that actually will have impact on my capabilities. And now, I will have 2 scales as back-up (and hopefully will never have to use them).

I've also seen some pretty inexpensive digital 'jewler's scales', that are designed for smaller total weights yet commonly go down to 0.1g sensitivity. That might be next. Hey, Santa Claus is coming to town, after all.

I'm surprised your trade scales are so (relatively speaking) inexpensive.

Thanks again

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

I got my trade scales off ebay - unused, in original boxes, so I did get a bit of a bargain.... I've not even tried to recalibrate the kd8000's. The auto-off on mine is about 5 minutes - long enough for me.

And yes, I do have a set of 0.1g scales - they take 0.2g to kick-in though, however the smallest amount of yeast I measure with them is 0.5g. They're 0-2Kg, so would do at a push, but are quite small.

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Gordon

You got quite a deal on your trade scales I believe.

The KD8000 manual says auto-shut off can-be set to 2 min, 5 min or Off. I just think that's a great control to have. More than once, my Salter has shut itself off (2 minute mandatory) mid-pour of the water. Where am I now? Flying by the seat of my pants once again.

The manual says that the scale shouldn't need to be calibrated in a lifetime, but if necessary...,. It requires a 5kg weight to perform. I just like that it is possible.

Regarding the jeweler's scales, if it has a 0.2g kick in, you could tare your dish, then add to the side an item of known weight. A US Nickel (5 cent piece) when shiney and new I've been told weighs exactly 5g. Then you could add your product to measure, without the kick in getting in the way of a 0.1g measurement, I'm guessing.

I was just thinking it might be worth the expense for accurate measurments of yeast and salt.

dobie

dobie's picture
dobie

Hi Abe

Just to be clear, you use this exact scale (as in the link)? You are happy with it?

Jeez, for $10 I should just take a flyer and see what happens.

It is sensitive to 0.01g. Wow.

Thanks for that.

dobie

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

I made a mistake and bought the same make but has the accuracy to 0.1g. They are very good but if I was to buy it again I'd go for this one which is to the accuracy of 0.01g.

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Many buy this with calibration weights. I didn't. Mine can vary by 0.1g but on the whole very accurate. Not sure how 0.01g scales can vary by but it will be so miniscule. What's in 0.1g, or 0.01g, when one has to go be feel and instinct when it comes to bread baking? Don't know how calibration weights work but they make it even more accurate. 

dobie's picture
dobie

Abe

I think 0.1g would be sufficient for my purposes, but I won't argue with 0.01g for $10.

I read some of the best and the worst reviews on 'the Big A' and feel it is worth the risk. I will probably be ordering one soon.

Thanks very much.

dobie

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Might as well go for 0.01g accuracy. That way if they're slightly out theyll still be perfect for a 0.1g accuracy :)

Win, win! 

drogon's picture
drogon

Don't confuse accuracy with resolution... I really doubt those (cheap) 0.01g scales are really that accurate. Just blowing on my 0.1g ones is enough to alter it. When I got them I did some silly things like watching a candle lose weight as it burned...

However even for overnight ferments with dried yeast 0.5g accuracy is all that's needed.

Unless of-course you're a drug-dealer ;-)

These are the ones I use:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IZ1YHZK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00

the protection cover doubles as a handy pan to hold dried yeast in too.

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Gordon

Thank you for that. I agree 0.1g is quite sufficient.

That scale goes up to 2kg (I think the .01g one maxed at 100g). That's quite a difference and for not much more money.

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

and this thread came to my mind so I took a look at the accuracy of what I use.

For weighing light items usually 1/4 pound or less

Used for most of our day to day recipe weighing 

This scale is used to weigh 72 pounds of chocolate mixture along with a tare weigh of 24 pounds for 40 litre mixer bowl

This was something I used in the 1990s for things that weighed less than a pound, we had a balance scale for things up to 10 or 12 pounds and a scale where you hung weights on a arm for up to 100 pounds.  Digital definitely made teaching someone how to weigh a recipe much easier and cuts down on mistakes, it is amazing how many people lack basic math skills like being able to add 24 lb to make up for the mixer bowl.

Gerhard

KathyF's picture
KathyF

I bought the KD8000 in June and I love it! I got it on Amazon for $33.95. I just looked and it is at $38.49 right now.

dobie's picture
dobie

Kathy

Thank you for that. You helped me finalize my decision. I am going to get one (and soon).

dobie

ccsdg's picture
ccsdg

I keep a somewhat thicker starter than you.  When I feel like the jar is getting messy I hold it sideways under running water, tipping down slightly but not so much that the starter immediately falls out.  Then I rub down the dried bits of gunk down with my fingers under the water, which drips out again (being tipped downward) so it doesn't significantly affect the hydration.

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Water goes in first, and I use that to clean down the sides, followed by the flour then I mix it. After which I use the spoon to scrape down any bits left behind. A wet spoon helps. 

dobie's picture
dobie

Abe

That's exactly how I do.

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Are you allowed to breathe near a .01 gram scale.  I can't imagine something outside of a laboratory needing that type of accuracy and having the numbers dance while the platform tries to find equilibrium would be annoying at best.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

Good point. What if a cloud passes overhead? You know, barometric pressure and all.

I don't know. It does seem overkill for these purposes. But for $10, let's find out.

dobie

ao's picture
ao

I decided to go with this one :D

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UIVIXVO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_qS9vwb4VQ0W5

it's double the price of the cheaper ones, but the ratings are solid!

dobie's picture
dobie

ao

That should work fine. It has all the features you need and plenty of good reviews. Good purchase.

dobie

ao's picture
ao

It was smelling very very acidic this morning, it doesnt smell like garbage juice yet, but I have a feeling it's getting there :( 

I dumped out half the starter and added a 1/4 cup of water and flour.

what I would give to smell a successful starter so that I know what mine is supposed to smell like! 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

1/4 cup flour + 1/4 cup water is way over 100% hydration. Remember it's by weight and not volume. Till you get your scales you'll just have to go by feel. Thicken it up with extra flour so it's a very thick batter. It would have had a good feed after this. Keep it somewhere warm and hopefully you'll see results soon. 

Some photos when fed then 12 hours later to compare would help. 

ao's picture
ao

I'll take a photo tonight of the 12 hours. I don't think it rose last night :(

dobie's picture
dobie

ao

I guess it could depend on the container your using, but usually if it rose and collapsed, you'll see a snail trail on the inside walls.

That's one reason I scrap clean the inside walls, just so there will be fresh evidence of what it's been up to.

Have patience. It'll work.

dobie

ao's picture
ao

I took out two table spoons of the stuff and made it into a "batter", now to wait out tje next 24 hours....

I'm also trying to make my first "sough dough" with the rest helped along with a pinch of yeast.... wish me luck!

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

A side view next time of the batter after risen would be better. And with the loaf you're doing with the left over starter + a pinch of yeast it should work either way. The little yeast you added will make it rise either way if given enough time. If the starter helps then fine and even if it doesn't it will give flavour. Go by feel and give it enough time. Double for bulk fermentation and almost doubled for final proofing. What recipe are you following? 

ao's picture
ao

it's not that I think recipes are overrated, I can't get the measurements right, so I went by feel... :(

it's half King Arthur whole wheat, half King Arthur bread flour, salt and water. I can't remember the last time I worked with whole wheat, but boy, that dough was sticky! The bread machine just wasn't cutting it with all the extra heat, so i ended up doing the rest of the kneading by hand. Almost got a window pane, but my arm was just about to fall off. lol.

it's still in the fridge now, now that the hard part is over, I'll let time do its magic - with my fingers crossed that I'll end up with an edible product at the end!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

bread off the top of my head ... would have me soaking the WW first before ever making the main dough.  I would also add my salt to it, cover, and come back in a few hours.  Then put the dough together.  Let that stand for 30 minutes and then start kneading.  Saves my hands and my disposition and I get better bread too!  If I thought a  normal wheat dough was sticky, I would be checking to see if I for got the salt and i would taste my dry flours to see if one of them might be rancid.  Soaking by retarding in the fridge also works but if you soak the whole wheat in the beginning, you can get a big forward jump in gluten development before kneading.

dobie's picture
dobie

Mini

Always such good posts. I always pick up another detail here and there.

ao

It looks quite healthy to me.

Don't worry about the discard as you are growing, worry about that later. You will find (as most do) a schedule of feeding and use that wastes little, if any.

Please post a pic of the bread when it's done.

dobie

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

from the top.  If I was a sourdough culture, I'd be acting up just because I had such a cool jar to live in.  :)

It does look thick enough to catch a rise.  Go wee beasties, go!

ao's picture
ao

I think they were condiment containers :)It's nice that they're glass with a swing open lid. This one's a bit more than a cup. If only they were a bit bigger!

ao's picture
ao

Woohoo it rose! It looks double (12hours), but I forgot to mark it this morning so I can say exactly how much it grew - but it grew a lot!

Thank you so much for your help you fabulous forum people :)

What's a good practice to keep it going strong? 

 

 

 Edit: Bread is done! Very very heavy. seeing the way it volcanoed....I'm 200% sure I didn't proof it long enough.

 Despite how lopsided the scoring is, it's my best score so far!!!

crumb shots and taste test tomorrow :) 



Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

roasted flour around the loaf, save it a put into the next dough.  

Yes, maybe it was too early in the oven...  Not bad.  Not quite a volcano.   This one had added yeast, right?  Did a good job, it's eatable.  Looks is always secondary, get the taste down first.   :)  What made you want to bake it?

With the next one try doing the final proof upside down, seam side up with a bit of side support.  When ready to bake, turn it over to score.  Now don't put it on parchment until you want it in the oven.  Let the shaped loaf rise on a floured cloth in a basket or bowl or deep sieve.  Or shape something with a few twisted kitchen towels on a rack so air can get all around it.  The idea is not to trap in any moisture (or it might stick) to make a surface to hold the dough later while it bakes.  The bigger bubbles inside the dough end up on the bottom (do poke the bigger ones) when it's flipped over and the bubbles have to rise up in the oven heat.  That gives more lift to the baking dough.  Once flipped over, place on the parchment and do your scoring thing and into a steamy hot oven.   

Scoring an "x" across the middle invites a volcano to some degree.  Try a score that blocks the top of the middle of the loaf, something like a pinwheel or a large #, or a long curve (smile) from one end to the other.  :)

ao's picture
ao

Sadly last night's loaf was gummy and too dense. it was sooo sour and tangy, I think it's defintely an acquired taste for anyone who can appreciate such a sour taste. But it's not for me, bleh :P

The good news is, my starter doubled in 9 hours! I don't think it's strong enough to leaven bread yet, but I've divided it out for a white flour starter.

 

9hours

 

8hours

 

7hours

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Now the next step is how to maintain it and use it within a bread. Sourdough doesn't have to be sour. You say you have a breadmaker. Do it have a French Bread setting. If so, what is the timings of each stage?

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

OK, now we know it can do that!  :)   Sounds like the yeast were taking too long.  I don't like the "big sour" in wheat bread and you can manipulate the starter to get less sour.

It also means the bacteria are good and strong.  Too strong and possibly the yeast need some more work. 

One way to do this is to take out a table spoon of mature starter,  add 2 to 4 spoons of water and add flour to make a paste, somewhere between a soft dough and thick batter.  (if not into spooning, put a splotch on the bottom of the jar, add enough water to almost put in under water, stir, add flour to thicken.)  Wait for the starter to peak out and then remove a tablespoon of starter and repeat the process.  You should see the time it takes to peak shortening.  

Feeding it at peak tends to feed the starter just before the bacteria want to rev up their numbers.  The starter should taste pleasant middle sour/nutty at peak.  Contrary, after a feeding, the starter should taste like wet flour.  If the newly fed starter tastes sour, add more water and flour to stimulate yeast growth. 

To introduce wheat just smuggle in a spoonful between the whole flours and each time it peaks, remove some mature starter and  increase the wheat amount in the next ,feeding.   I dislike the word, "double."  It is too easy to get fixed on that and miss the other clues to starter health.  You may find that by upping the flour feed, you get tripling and quadrupling of the starter with higher concentrations of yeast.   

One of my favourite yeast tests is to do a one to ten feeding.  Once the yeast get that perfect lower pH they fill a beaker with gassy yeasty starter peaking within 8 to 10 hours at 24°C.  (so have your recipe handy)   When growing wheat starters, use a container that accommodates rise 4 to 5 times the starter amount and still stay in the jar.  lots of head space to avoid overflowing.  

Tip: too sour a bread?  Make an onion soup and when divided into bowls,  cover the soup with slices of toasted sour bread and top with cheese to melt in a hot oven.  Do not add any vinegar or wine to the soup (acid, or at least be frugal with it) as the bread will take their place as the desired acid.   

ao's picture
ao

I proofed this one in a fake banneton aka mixing bowl lined with well oiled paper towels and dusted with rice flour. After it proofed, I turned it out into this perfect little boule to be. Then I scored her and the most horrifying  thing happened...she immediately went splat at the first cut! I can probably try to throw this one like a frisbee.

The first proof took about 12 hours at room temperature. Then I decided that I wasn't going to wait another 8 hours for a second proof and added 1/8 tsp of commercial yeast. This cut down the second proof to 4 hours during which the dough barely reached the rim of the medium sized pyrex mixing bowl. If this was my usual yeasted bread I would have allowed it to rise much more.  bread came out with crumbs that looked like quick bread :(

My scales should be arriving today, whatever is going on, I'm determined to fix it!

 



Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It doesn't look too bad.  Well oiled paper towels is a new one.  What are the flours in the dough and how much of each?

ao's picture
ao

As per your advice I also soaked the WW for a couple of hours before I started. The hydration was high, but it wasn't anything I couldn't work with when I used commercial yeast. the only difference with the SD was the lack of an oven spring :( 

I think I'll do all bread flour next, just to get a feel how much more spring I can get without WW.