Help! Flat Tartine Loaves
Hey there!
I'm new to this forum because I have been having the same issues with my Tartine loaves! I've been a Tartine sourdough bread baker for about a year now. I usually will get a starter going for about a couple weeks, bake the bread, and then disregard the starter and restart all again a few months later. I've had some success with my Tartine loaves- they taste great, have a nice crisp crust, etc. However, nearly every time I bake them my loaves come out flat! They are about 1 to 2 inches in height, not like many pictures I have seen of these beautiful, round loaves. Additionally, the inside is rather dense. Thus, I am assuming I am doing something wrong in regards to allowing it to rise?
I fed this starter for about a month, so I feel that it definitely had time to mature. I scoop a majority of the starter out, and refill with a handful of white/wheat flour mixture and warm water everyday. I don't really notice the "rise and fall" of the starter however. Even more so, each time when I am ready to bake, for those Tartine bakers, my leaven never passes the "float" test in water. But I go ahead and bake anyways....I follow the instructions rather diligently in regards to the rest, bulk fermentation rise, shaping, and final rises. Yet, most times the loaves come out rather flat...
Possibly it could be the temperature. It may be rather cool as the temperature of my house is currently 68 degrees (ranges from 65-70 degrees). Or maybe I'm not letting the gluten develop fully? I'm going to try and keep this starter going, so maybe as the older the starter is, the better it will result in the leaven and ultimately bread. Any suggestions would be helpful! I'm not too technical of a bread baker. Another question on a side note, since I don't bake my bread very frequently, yet don't want to create a new starter every time, is there a way to keep a starter (possibly in the fridge) for a few weeks and then restart feeding it again when I am ready to bake some loaves?
Cheers!
For instance, how much starter are you using relative to flour? What's the hydration of your starter? Do your loaves mainly come out flat because they spread or because they don't rise? Have you baked other loaves using your starter that didn't go flat?
As for keeping starter, if you make a stiff mother (e.g. 50% hydration), you can keep that in the fridge for a long time, but will need to build the active starter that goes into the dough, quite possibly over at least a couple of stages.
Thanks for the response! Basically, when feeding my starter, I'll remove about 60% of it, and replace with a handful of white/wheat flour, pour in some warm water, and then mix with my hands until it is like my previous starter. Maybe I'm too nonchalant with that process? Could you clarify what you mean by the hydration of the starter? As mentioned, I'm less of a technical baker haha.
During a rest period, my loaves do spread out on the table, but as mentioned in Tartine that is normal. There seems to be no rising however...I noticed that in this starter, my leaven didn't really rise overnight so that could also be the problem. I'm prone to throwing out my starter after I do one bake because I don't want to keep maintaining the starter. However, I think this time I am going to try and stick with one starter and hopefully see the breads improve as the older/more mature my starter is.
is simply the ratio of water to flour in the starter, by weight, expressed as a %. So for example, if the starter contains 50 gm each of water an flour, it's 100 % hydration (50 gm water weight divided by 50 gm flour weight). If it contains the same 50 gm of flour but with 30 gm of water, it's 60% hydration (30 gm water weight divided by 50 gm flour weight).
If you throw out your starter and make a new one each time. it may not be mature enough after two weeks to be fully active, which would limit the rise you get. Also, if your starter is high hydration, it could be making the dough a lot looser than it's supposed to be, which could contribute to getting more spread than rise.
And it's a good idea to measure by weight so you know your starter is a consistent hydration every time you use it rather than hoping you can match the feel of the starter you threw out last time.
Hi Clover23 and welcome to The Fresh Loaf (TFL) forum.
There is a thread currently underway that probably has many answers to your question.
It is called 'developing, maintaining & storing healthy starters'.
If you go to the menu bar at the top of this page and click on 'Home', it will show you the recent posts/threads, and you will find it there.
Good luck
dobie
Does your dough swell or increase in size at all? If it does then your starter is probably active enough and there is a problem with gluten development and shaping. Try being more aggressive with the stretch and folds meaning do it more times each time. Also the Tartine shaping method is pretty complex and hard to understand without a demonstration(at least that is what I've read) so you may have some issues with that, it may be something to review. What is the flour mix you are using and the protein %. The more whole grain the less roundness of the loaf.
Stu
Hi and thanks for the response! Hmm to be honest, I haven't really noticed my starter ever really rising and falling that actively. But then again, I usually don't check it frequently throughout the day.
I will try more active stretches and folds. I haven't really noticed my dough increasing that frequently through rest periods. I may try more aggressive folds and shaping and maybe that will get a stronger gluten development and shaping.
I use a 50/50 King Arthur white and whole wheat flour mixture for the starter. And then for the actual dough it's 9:1 ratio of white to wheat so not too much of a wheat presence.
If your starter isn't rising, your bread isn't going to rise either. I would definitely advise checking out the thread on developing and maintaining a starter. And you really need to buy an inexpensive scale and switch to measuring everything by weight.
Once you have a starter that will double between feedings, and have consistent measures, I promise you will have better results.
As for the temp, you should be fine. This is my favorite time of year to bake, because I can keep the house in the mid to upper 60s, You have much better control over dough development and rise times when it is a little cool.
Good luck, and happy baking!
Thanks for the advice! Maybe it is that my starter isn't significantly rising and falling between feedings. Before, I used to free hand it. However, as of lately, I am trying to remove about 80% of the starter, and replace with 100% hydration of 1/4 cup of white/wheat flour and 1/4 cup of warm water. Hopefully I'll see some rising/falling with more precision. Any other suggestions as to why my starter might not be doubling between feedings? Thanks!