October 25, 2015 - 2:49am
where are the air holes?
Hi I am a novice baker and following a fairly basic sour dough recipe ( Paul Hollywood ) using my own starter. The results are tasty enough however the loaf lacks the big air pockets and chewy crust I associate with a quality sour dough. It is not that distinguishable from a normal loaf.
Could the starter have anything to do with this. It appears to be bubbly and smell beery etc and I get a good first and second rise. I prove the dough in the kitchen and for an extended period ( usually 6-8 hours for first and second prove )
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Can you give more details on how you are kneading and shaping the dough? Do you use steam in baking the bread? In my experience, how you handle the dough makes a difference in how open your crumb is. The crust comes from using steam in the first part of baking the loaf. I use a covered enamel dutch oven to bake my loaf in for a crackly crispy crust. You can watch the videos by Ken Forkish for tips on mixing, shaping and proofing your bread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0owQi_U44c&list=PLWqTac5vy0cfmXcQgnMAZl6z69kpmUzBI
I read your question and then read this comment by dabrownman, and of course said it better than I could. It answers your question.. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/335847#comment-335847 as to the why / how it works with getting open crumb.. Enjoy
Hydration is just one part of the equation and Kathy is on to the other parts of it. How you develop the gluten, ferment, shape and proof the dough are other 4 parts of getting big holes. Generally speaking having a quick, light touch and not messing with the dough too much leads to bigger holes.
Josh used t say he could look at a picture of the crumb and immediately tell if it was one of my breads or not because i always did the same thing. Higher hydration, 30-50% whole grains, 8 minutes of slap and folds, followed by two sets of 1 minute each of slap and folds on 15 minute intervals then 3 sets of stretch and folds on 20 minute intervals. .It wasn't as heavy handed as the 10 minutes of old style kneading but it was only 1 step removed. Doing just stretch and folds or 30 slap and folds and then minimal stretch and folds or doing no knead after that results in a more open crumb.
After the gluten is developed to the bare minimum then quick soft hands and not much handling are the keys to a more open crumb.
I personally prefer an open crumb more suited for sandwiches and think big holes are over rated except for ciabatta but knowing how to get what you want when you want it comes with experience and time ,
Happy baking
I make (and sell) what I consider to be a quality sourdough and one type I make does not have big holes in it. That's my intention and my customers like it that way. (I also make some soudough breads with the big glossy holes too - other customers like those)
So I'd suggest not confusing quality with desired result.
But generally, big glossy holes come with higher hydration and lighter handling and you'll not generally see that in Paul Hollywoods published stuff which is more for your average home bread maker who wants something that works reliably. (Other than ciabatta!)
You really need to start getting the hydration to over 65% if using most UK flours - even higher if you're using something with some stronger Canadian flour in it. You'll see a lot of the recipes here starting at 70%, but most are from US based bakers - something to be aware off (I'm assuming you're in the UK given the PH reference - his "classic sourdough" published online is just a 60% hydration recipe - no different from any other recipe - assuming its this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/classic_sourdough_21029 it does seem to have rather a lot of starter though 66% - which I'm assuming is at 100% hydration - I typically use 30% starter for most wheat based breads these days.
Then comes kneading and handling techniques - the dough starts to get sticky fast so the handling methods need to change. I'm not convinced his published recipe is that good to be honest... (It will work - and obviously does for you, and produce good bread, but probably not great bread with nice glossy holes) I'm surprised at the length of the 2nd rise - my own experiences suggest 2 hours maximum after an initial ferment overnight, then after the ferment, it's very light handling - none of the knocking back and re-kneading he does.
-Gordon
Can you post the recipe? Also can you explain this... "I prove the dough in the kitchen and for an extended period ( usually 6-8 hours for first and second prove)"
How long for the bulk ferment (first rise) and how long for the final proofing (2nd rise after shaping)?