Spelt starter
Hi there, I am a newbe bread maker and of course jumped in with both feet and made a spelt starter. Or I'm trying to. I'm at the two week point, it smells good, looks bubbly but it's very thin and doesn't rise. I had one morning about three days ago where I got up, peeked in my oven (where I'm keeping it with just the light on) and saw it had definitely doubled in size and then fallen. Perfect I thought! I followed an online recipe for a spelt loaf, 530 grams of spelt, 1 1/2 cups water, honey etc. and stretched it three times and put it back in the oven to proof for the night. When I began in the morning, it was completely soupy! I poured it instead of folding it! Well I persevered and baked off the hardest brick ever. Great taste though on the bright side, nice and sour! So now I realize I think my starter isnt strong enough. (Of course that's probably only one of many problems, but back to the basics I guess.;) What can I do? I'll take any ideas right now!
thanks so much in advance,
Lauren
my oven with the light on is 91 f when the door is closed.
Spelt likes to be a bit on the fry side too . 85% hydration for the starter will be fine.
Happy baking
Thank you so much for the advice! Here's the update. Pulled it out of the oven, and split it into two. One I put in my warming drawer on the lowest possible setting (It looks about 80 degrees) and the other I fed with the same WEIGHT of water to flour. I was doing 1/4 cup of each before. I put that one on the counter for about 4 hours, but not much happening so I put that in the warming drawer as well. As of now, the one I didn't feed has still got lots of little bubbles, but no movement, and the one I fed has started with 5 or 6 bigger bubbles, but again no movement up the sides. I will definitely take any more advice you have and thanks so much again!! I can't believe after two weeks of treating this better than I did my children at this age I feel like I'm ready to toss it all!!
the starter is too thin and it won't rise making you feel like you are a failure when it is just a misunderstanding, Starters are much easier ti raise then children are - by far and away easier but children are more fun and talk back to you:-) Keep that starter 85% hydration and when it starts talking back to you you can give it a name.....
Happy SD Baking
Bubble up differently. Spelt breads don't rise as much as wheat breads. Their starters also bubble up differently. You hear a lot of these terms "doubling" or "tripling" when there are so many factors which will affect it. Different flours and/or hydration, different size bubbles etc.
I have noticed that if I make a spelt preferment, for a spelt bread, and build it from a wheat starter then it'll bubble up differently. At 100% hydration different flours will absorb more or less. If it's more liquid then it'll bubble less. If you build a rye starter at 100% hydration it will absorb more water and be thicker therefore bubble up more.
All I want to know at this stage is can it make bread? Perhaps post a before and after photo of your starter being fed and risen. Then if all looks good go onto trying your first bake.
Did I read correctly? You made the dough so wet you had to pour it? I generally go low hydration for spelt flour and don't forget that spelt ferments quicker than wheat. If you're ready to try again then there is a nice recipe you can follow from breadtopia... http://breadtopia.com/spelt-bread-recipe/
Hi Abe, here's my update. (I would have included pics but apparently I have the same deft ability with computers as I do with starters and couldn't make it work).
Well, one started to smell quite strong, no rising whatsoever. I tried your floating test and it sunk like a stone so I chucked it. The other actually looks quite good, except absolutely no rising up the sides of the dish at all. It rose in the middle a bit, but that was it. I did the float test on it and it half floated! It wanted to for sure! So I just fed it and put it on the counter for the night. Now of course I'm going away tomorrow for two nights. I can't decide whether to have my girlfriend "babysit" (she wants some) or whether to stick them in the fridge and keep trying on Monday. I do feel a smidge closer to success than yesterday, but just a bit. Any more suggestions? Thanks so much!! Lauren
That's the ticket
Feed it. Allow it to sit out for a few hours then refrigerate it. Will last a couple of days in the fridge. Unless your friend doesn't mind babysitting it that is.
I'd be interested to see how a 100% hydration whole rye starter would react. But that can wait till you get back. You talk of "them". How many have you got going? I put all my energy into one starter when I first started and gave it lots of TLC. With time and patience I think it'll be just fine. Keep it up! Most people give in when they're just about to succeed. At the beginning starters will test your patience to the max but once it's viable it'll be no trouble.
It is tempting to overfeed at the beginning thinking it'll encourage it. But don't forget it's fermenting and if it keeps on being refreshed too often before the yeasts have had time take over the starter then it's just continuously being "diluted". We feed the starters to give the yeasts more food but if there is no activity then what are we feeding? Once the starter is nice and healthy and predictable it will rise on cue every time it is fed. Then it is ready to use. Till then we nurture it. One of the best advice at the beginning is to feed when you see activity as supposed to the usual feed every 12 hours come what may.
If you can figure out how to send photos that will be great. Let us know how it's doing.
hi Dabra! I sure hope you're right! My name for that starter has been "Quit" for the last few days. My idea of the warming drawer backfired, still too hot. I made my husband put the heat up in the house last night and we left it on the counter. If you can, read my answer to Abe, cause I'll take more opinions. Thank goodness for this site, because I was so grateful for both of you and the ideas! I think the hydration is right on now, leaving it on the counter is the right idea and now I just have to worry about this weekend. Fridge or friend? What's your opinion? And now that I think I'm finally on the right track, how many more feedings before I try to bake with it again? Will I have to go back to twice a day for a while again? It's like being addicted to a soap opera, what's going to happen next??? Cheers, Lauren
What water are you using. Starters may react unfavourably to chlorinated water. Depending on which area you live in there might be an issue.
I feed my starter with boiled water that has been cooled down to room temperature.
Every little bit helps and might be worth a try.
hi Abe, the water is double filtered tap. After I chucked the smelly one yesterday, I split the other into two and fed them around dinner last night. Woke up this morning and they look fantastic, truly doubled for the first time! But still no falling yet, and of course I'm leaving around 2 pm! My friend will take over and I'll tell her to leave them until they have fallen and then feed them. What happens if they don't fall by tomorrow morning? Should she feed or leave them? Or should she feed them tonight anyways, fallen or not? Many thanks, Lauren
... you should control them.
They're working. Active, bubbling and all that. Put them in the fridge until you are ready to use them.
-Gordon
Like Gordon says!
Refrigerate and you're ready to bake with them when you get back.
Enjoy your time off.
If you want reassurance then you could always refrigerate one and give the other to your friend. I think from here onwards, after a successful bake, you'll work out a maintenance schedule that has no discard and you won't be slave to them either. That can be discussed.
thanks Abe, I'm going to do that. One in my fridge after feeding, one to my friend. What happens if they still don't fall? Should I try a bake anyways?
And stay up there longer then 12 hours ish then you've discovered a super yeast strain. As you'll find out with sourdough (I'm sure you are beginning to realise) there is the 'textbook' way and then there is everyone else's way. Just like when creating a starter you had exact measurements and timings etc yet everyone has their own way then so to with how you use it within your bread. At the beginning (like with everything in life) you learn the 'rules' but then you find your own way. If your starter has risen and peaked then it is ready to be used, refrigerated or fed again. In fact if I wasn't using it for a while I'd let it bubble up by half then refrigerate and it can happily sit there till I'm ready to use it. But then again everyone has their own method. Till then follow recipes as stated and advice on how to maintain your starter and slowly but surely when you 'know' your starter and sourdough you'll do your own way.
Thanks Abe, and yes Gordon's loaves are amazing! Know what I'm shooting for now, and I wish he lived nearby!! I'll probably be back here on Monday or Tuesday with a report and/or more questions!! Cheers and thanks SO much again!
Lauren
I make sourdough spelt loaves regularly - currently 3 times a week. My starter sits in the fridge at 100% hydration ( ie. equal weights of flour and water. The dough is a mix of about 30% wholemeal spelt and 70% white spelt (the starter is 100% white spelt). I also add in a bit of local honey.
Your first one was way over proofed and turned to goo... I mix/knead up a batch of dough the night before then leave to ferment overnight, tip out, give it a quick stretch/fold then scale, pre-shape/shape/proof/bake. The final proof takes 90 minutes or so.
Spelt is a very soft wheat - plenty of gluten, but its much softer than regular wheats, so it will flow and flying saucer if you let it.... I always proof on a couche or in a banneton.
It's also expensive here too - double the cost of regular wheat )-:
The starter should be fairly robust once established - I'm just back from 8 days holiday where mine has lived in the fridge un-touched for the duration. I took it out at 8pm last night and added it directly into some flour, mix/knead/ferment and baked & sold 4 loaves this morning.
-Gordon
Hi Gordon, thanks so much for your info! It's good to know that once it's established I can use your 30/70 mix of spells. Do you have a recipe you use? I'd love to see it if so! Once I get to the bread stage next week, I'll maybe try a couple just to see what's up. If I follow the first recipe I used I would add a bit more flour I guess. It just proofed overnight like the recipe said, but what a mess. Don't want to go down that road again!
So - 100% flour, 30% starter, 52% water, 5% honey, 1.5% salt.
Put that into some real numbers and a large loaf might be:
165g wholemeal spelt + 385g white spelt. 165g starter (at 100% hydration), 286g water, 28g honey, 8g salt.
Start off with a little less water - especially if the honey is runny. Mix and knead however you want, then leave it overnight. I'd typically start this at about 8-9pm, then at about 6am I'm up and scaling it/shaping/proofing (in a banneton) before going into the oven. The overnight is where some others who've tried to follow this have had problems - it needs to be cool, but not cold - I now know my bakehouse/kitchen hot and cool spots, so I try to leave in in a place round about 18C. Never over 21C. I normally tip it out of the plastic box it's overnighted in and give it a 4-way stretch and fold at that point which firms it up a little and makes it easier to scale then pre-shape/shape.
Proofing can take 1-2 hours, depending on temperature - at 5:30-6am my ovens go on and the bakehouse starts to warm up - 28C is not uncommon. They can over-prove quite quickly so keep an eye on them and use the finger poke test.
Into a hot oven (250C) with a cup of water in a tray at the bottom for 12 minutes then down to 200C for the remainder - about 20-25 minutes.
Spelts proving in bannetons (the recipe above would make 2 of these, or 1 large one)
A couple baked ready to go out..
-Gordon
Your breads never fail to impress me Gordon. Absolutely lovely! Great colour and oven spring.
Gordon, those are beautiful beyond belief and my new goal! I can hardly wait till next week to start the journey. Thank you over and over for the recipe, that is definitely going to be my first attempt. One final question. When you are baking is it in a lidded container as is so many other recipes, or just in open loaf pans? Many, many thanks!
Thanks for the comments, but I have to say, I don't feel I can shape/bake spelt as well as the other loaves I do. Not been able to pin-point why - sometimes spelt splits along a side - often a sign of under proving, but even when I leave it to the point of collapse I've had it. It does come out of the oven darker - and that's (I think!) a good sign - early on, they were looking baked, even sounding a bit hollow, but really a bit underbaked - so I extended the time. The darkness is really the honey caramelising which adds some flavour itself.
I don't use a lidded container, (but see below :-) but how their baked depends on the oven - I have 3. The original one isn't vented to the outside (in any way that it matters), so a cup of water in the tray at the bottom is fine - oven No. 2 (Lincat) has water injection at the touch of a button and oven No. 3 (Rofco B40) is also fairly well sealed and I use a pump spray bottle thing to get a good dose of steam in as I close the door.
The Lincat is fitted with 10mm steel plates and I peel the dough directly onto that - the Rofco has composite furnace stone stuff and the dough goes directly onto that too. when I use oven No 1 - a cheap domestic oven, I tip the bannetons out onto silpain mats - which are porous silicon mats - these are then transferred via a peel directly onto the grids. I used to use trays, but this seems better.
As part of tonights mix, I've just done dough for 2 large and 3 small spelts - I'll see if I can remember to take photos tomorrow...
Some of tonights mixes:
spelt is in the top-left tub...
-Gordon
Hi fellas! Don't know if you're still around to read this, but here's the update. Home from the weekend, picked up the beautiful bubbly starter from my friends house. Got everything set up last night and I made a loaf this morning. Better, but not there yet. I used the breadtopia video and followed that recipe, not realizing it was the same one as the first loaf I tried. The starter was better and that was great, but 530 grams of flour still made it way too wet, though not as wet as the first loaf I tried, I didn't pour it, but still really wet. when I tipped it out of the banneton onto my pizza stone (I don't have a dutch oven so I covered that with a pot upside down) it still spread out a bit and so the loaf was flatter than it should be. It did rise a bit though and the taste and crust were fantastic. I wish I could work the photo part, I'd send a pic. Anyways, next try should I just proof in a ceramic bowl and then bake right in the same bowl, or should I add a bit more flour to the mix to get it a bit less wet? What are your thoughts?
PS, my friend says you two are like spelt super heroes and is now reffering to you both as The Speltmen :)!
Have you seen those loaves!? :)
Funnily enough the spelt recipe from breadtopia was my first success. Not perfect but my first sourdough that I was proud of and I could eat.
Gordon is probably the one to troubleshoot your latest bake. Just to make sure though... you did use whole spelt for the recipe? Just that wholemeal flour soaks up more water than white flour. Just want to make sure you didn't substitute some white spelt flour.
Another thing is, when it comes to bread breaking, don't be afraid to alter the hydration to what works for you. Many things can affect the hydration of your dough from climate to altitude and even different flours from different countries. I have found that spelt works (for me) at a lower hydration while many recipes out there call for higher hydration. Just had a look at the recipe and it doesn't seem too high for a whole spelt but will feel like a higher hydration due to the added honey. Spelt spreads more than wheat (it flows) and therefore more difficult to get as good an oven spring. Mini Oven has a good method of always holding back a little water to see how the dough is coming together then slowly adding a bit more if you think it needs it (i'm going to adopt this idea myself). Better then dumping all the ingredients together then trying to alter it after the fact (which can be done but this way round if it's too wet and you need to add more flour then the salt will be off but holding back a little water and slowly adding it doesn't throw anything off balance).
Sounds as if your starter is very healthy. Nice!
P.s. I haven't yet found a dutch oven that will fit in my oven but if you can bake your breads in a dutch oven it will really help.
Thanks Abe, ok I will definitely hold back a bit of water for the next one. I'm liking trying that idea. Yes, sigh, I did use some white spelt. Someone else had written in that they did that, so I thought maybe that was the problem with my first "brick" loaf. I'll try the next one just with the whole spelt again to see. I'm about to make another brick today I think. For some reason my starter went flat again. I took some when it was really great and bubbly, to make the breadtopia one on Monday, and fed the starter again. Then yesterday I wanted to try the recipe on breadtopia that was made into sandwich loaves. My starter looked very flat and had only raised a smidge, but I prepped the bread last night anyways. Put the dough in the fridge like it said and this morning it hadn't raised at all. I put it in the bread pans anyways and will carry on until the baking stage and then will probably chuck it away. Of course this morning my starter looks like it's almost back to normal, bubbling away. I have no idea why. I'll try that recipe again tonight I think, and keep my eye on my starter. If it goes flat during the day today, I'll feed it again, so it will be ok for use tonight. Cheers, and I wish you lived in Vancouver! i think I need a sourdough school course!
Add some white Rye if you wish but remember that white flour needs less hydration than wholegrain flour. I think your bake would have been perfect hydration if it had been all wholegrain.
Another thing I wish to add is this... When I first started I could never get enough gluten formation when following the recommended stretch and folds. Then I tried a little experiment of doing a little good old fashioned knead when forming the dough (just for a few minutes) to get the gluten formation off to a good start then I went back to following the recipe and I noticed a big difference. If you think your dough needs more gluten formation then by all means try this. Or if the dough is very high hydration (which would only suit stretch and folds) then add in a few more.
Your starter is young and may be temperamental still. I think give it a few more days of TLC and when it is strong enough then start thinking about storing it and working out a maintenance schedule so that you aren't slave to it.
I used to think that starter which has peaked and JUST started to fall is the only time it can be used in a bread. But I've since learned there are no hard rules. A starter that is kept at room temperature should be fed daily but eventually you can keep it in the fridge and feed when necessary. If a recipe calls for mature starter then it means recently peaked and active. Then the timings of the recipe have been worked out according to this. Should I use starter from the fridge which was fed a few days back then it will still work but i'll have to take into account it may be slower. You'll soon get to know your starter and how to adjust your schedule around it. A recipe may have to be tweaked. Don't forget that starter will be quicker if it's warmer or slower if colder. These are things a recipe can't take into account for you. And all of our starters are different. As a general rule, but by no means the only rule, go for double when bulk fermenting then just under double for final proofing. You'll have to judge this by how your dough looks and feels.
VERMONT SOURDOUGH
by
Jeffrey Hamelman
Recipe
Flour : 490g [440g bread flour, 50g rye]
Water : 267g
Salt : 10-11g
Levain : 196g @ 125% hydration
Levain Build : 14g starter + 102g water + 80g bread flour [12-14 hours before]
METHOD
1. Mix flours with water and levain until well combined. Let the dough rest (autolyse) for 30 minutes.
2. Add the salt and knead by hand till fully incorporated & medium gluten formation [about 10min].
3. Let the dough ferment at room temperature for 2.5 hours with folds at 50 minutes and 100 minutes.
4. Shape on floured surface and let rest for 15 minutes.
5. Shape again into banneton with seam side up and final proof for 2-2.5 hours [or leave out for 20min then refrigerate till ready].
6. Bake in pre-heated oven.
Nice recipe for you. Any questions do not hesitate to ask.
Can I use this with just spelt? (I have IBS so I can't use wheat or rye) and another question. I see all the time where people say 100% hydration. I assumed that meant just having been fed. This says 125%. I guess I should have asked what that meant a long time ago.
I haven't tried this with spelt but just done some calculations and it's an overall 65% hydration. I don't see why a straight forward conversion can't be done. Use white spelt where bread flour is asked for and whole spelt where rye is asked for.
100% hydration is equal weight flour to water. So 10g flour + 10g water (weight! not volume) = 100% hydration. Also note that 10g water = 10ml. You are correct that the pre-ferment will be 125% hydration. So just take a little off from your starter and build that in another container. It is very high hydration so don't expect it to rise that much. It'll just be frothy and bubbly. Spelt ferments quicker then wheat so 12 hours-ish for the pre-ferment.
When it comes to the recipe then follow as it is till the final proofing. Final proofing asks for 2-2.5 hours. But Spelt is quicker so keep an eye on it as it will be closer to 2 hours or a bit less. Depending on your starter and temperature of the place. Don't aim for double but rather 90%. And don't forget that in a round banneton which widens at the top then what looks like double is actually more.
Best of luck.
I'll need it! Keep you posted.....
VERMONT SOURDOUGH
by
Jeffrey Hamelman
Recipe
Flour : 490g [440g white spelt flour, 50g whole spelt flour]
Water : 237g + 30g
Salt : 10-11g
Levain : 196g @ 125% hydration
Levain Build : 14g starter + 102g water + 80g white spelt flour [10-12 hours before]
METHOD
1. Mix flours with 237g water and levain until well combined. Let the dough rest (autolyse) for 30 minutes.
2. Add the salt and knead by hand till fully incorporated* & medium gluten formation [about 10min].
*At this stage you can add up to 30g water (the little water you kept behind) if you think the dough needs it!
3. Let the dough ferment at room temperature for 2.5 hours with folds at 50 minutes and 100 minutes.
4. Shape on floured surface and let rest for 15 minutes.
5. Shape again into banneton with seam side "down" and final proof till ready. Recipe asks for 2-2.5 hours for bread flour but spelt will be quicker so start to keep an eye on it after 1hr 30min.
6. Pre-heat oven.
7. Tip dough out onto prepared baking tray and the seams will act as a natural scoring.
8. Bake as normal till ready. Golden brown and hollow when tapped.
wow, that is just what I needed! Ok I've got my last nights attempt in the oven now (you know, more bricks) I'm still not over fussed at why the starter is not rising very much. Fed this morning, rose a bit and fell a bit by 1pm, so I fed again. I will start your recipe tomorrow night, I'd love to have another good attempt for Friday night! So I'll just keep feeding the starter twice a day and hope it starts working well again for me to start the levain tomorrow night. At least until you say not to? Cheers, Abe!
I'm excited to see results.
How are you feeding your starter? In order for it to rise well it should have a high ratio of fresh flour to starter. This will be a good feed making a healthy starter.
A feed of 1:1:1 is same weight starter:water:flour e.g. 50g starter : 50g water : 50g flour
If you are feeding your starter every 12 hours with poor feeds then it will eat through the food quickly and not rise much. And don't forget when you're feeding this often it is very active and gets quicker each time.
Try not going any less than 1:1:1 and if possible go 1:2:2 or even 1:3:3 to encourage a healthy starter.
If this recipe works well then we'll build on that and start adding in things like honey which goes well with spelt. The initial dough is 60% hydration before you add the salt and extra water, if needed. Quite low but when you add the salt and think it needs more then slowly add more water which will also help to incorporate the salt. Squeezing the dough and folding will help when adding the salt and run your hands under the cold tap as cold damp hands makes it easier to knead.
If this works then onto the next stage of making a home for your starter in the fridge and working out maintenance and how to use in future bakes.
It's late her now and have to be up very early. Best of luck!!
Hi Abe, I've been trying to post a reply so this is a bit of an experiment. You'll wake possibly to tons of emails from me, sorry!!
Ok Abe, finally I've realized I cannot paste my response to you, so I'll start typing again! so I awoke this morning, the starter was great! I'm going to start the levain for your recipe tonight. I'd love to be able to take it out of the oven later in the day tomorrow. Do you think I can start forming everything later in the day tomorrow, or will the levain fail because I'm leaving it too long before I begin?
Also, now that I think I'm a starter "expert" (ok, maybe that's a big stretch") how is the best way to keep it in the fridge? My ultimate goal is to bake a couple of loaves once or twice a week. Is there a practical way to accomplish this? This is exciting, I was close to giving up!!!
cheers, Lauren
Hi Lauren,
All ready for the bake?
So I understand your question to be... the starter build asks for 10-12 hours before you begin to bake but that isn't going to fit into your schedule. Either that means building it in the early hours of the morning when you'll be asleep or you wake the next morning to find you're too busy and have to push off baking. If that is the case then pop it in the fridge till you're ready. You will have heard the starter should be used when peaked and just started to fall, which is the popular piece of advice (and a good one too), however you'll soon learn that there aren't really any steadfast rules. Yes if you leave it out for too long and don't feed it the starter will eventually die. But that doesn't mean if you don't catch it just having peaked it's not going to work. If you go half an hour over it'll still be fine. If you build your starter and at the 10-12 hour mark you won't be baking for a few more hours or even need to push it off a day then pop it in the fridge till you're ready. Just remember a recently matured starter will be quicker so always go by feel when baking too. Most important is the final proofing and getting that right. So you have a rough time in the recipe but will never be exact and adjust to your starter's needs.
Everyone on here, or anyone who bakes with sourdough, will have a different method of maintenance according to their own needs. I'll explain you my method but it's not the only one and by all means learn from everyone and formulate your own method.
I bake once a week and in order to not build too much and never discard i'll do the following... Typically i'll build about 100-150g of starter (100% hydration whole rye). I'll allow that to bubble up by half then keep it in the fridge (this way it's got plenty of food reserves and can munch away slowly in the fridge). When it comes to baking i'll take a little off and build a starter with it. When my starter in the fridge runs low (never less than 1 tablespoon as keeping less is not good for the starter I once read) i'll take it out and feed it, allow it to bubble up by half and then return it to the fridge and so on.
Now I have a 100% hydration whole rye starter. Very hardy. Keeping it this way I can leave it a couple of weeks between feeds and it doesn't effect it. In fact the smell gets better and it never forms any hooch (liquid which forms on top of a starter which means it needs feeding). Wheat starters and even more so spelt need a bit more TLC so i'd work out a schedule where you feed it more often then I do. Plus your starter is young! and will benefit from more regular feedings to build up strength. So for now keep on feeding it for a few more days then start keeping it in the fridge and feed it twice a week. And slowly find an optimum time for between feeds that fits around your schedule and what is good for your starter. Soon you won't be slave to your starter.
Hi Abe, I'll need to re read that to have that go in my brain, so I know I'll have questions, but for now here's one. I'm just up this morning and looked at the levain from last night. It looks like it has water on top. Is that ok? It doesn't look as thick as the starter. Can I still start this morning?
125% plus its also spelt. It won't rise as much but will be bubbly and frothy. Is it?
If it looks active then good to go!
I think so? It doesn't look like a starter, there are kind of rivulets of liquid on top, but I'm going to give it a go anyways. i think I should start it now, (9 am now, and I did the levain at 10 last night). the bread will be out of the oven long before my dinner tonight, but better I follow the recipe exactly, I think!
And your starter has been fed daily and is very active. I think it fermented well, peaked and fell. Press ahead and best of luck. We'll discuss results and how to proceed from here. Watch out for that final proofing!
Hi Abe. What a roller coaster! So I did 1,2,2 this morning again, and it had done nothing! no bubbles on top. Weird. So at 3pm I fed it again, and we'll see. I'm going to hope I need to feed it again by bed time. I baked off the white spelt loaf today. it didn't seem to rise much in the banneton at all, but I threw it in the oven anyways, and it did rise up in a weird way. The sides came up so it was almost like a flying saucer! (I put potatoes in for my company just in case. I'm a chicken with a plan B) I'll keep you posted!!
It seemed like it was doing really well and bubbling up every time and then it all goes quiet intermittently. If, when you feed it, your starter goes quiet then don't feed it again till you see activity. It is tempting to keep feeding it to 'encourage' your starter when it might be doing more harm than good. Afterall, if there is no activity, what are you feeding? In fact when you see no activity then discard some to feed more this will be detrimental as you're 'diluting' the starter. Do this too often when your starter isn't active then you'll end up back at square one.
"So I did 1,2,2 this morning again, and it had done nothing! no bubbles on top. Weird. So at 3pm I fed it again, and we'll see..."
Don't feed it again till you see activity. Adopt this schedule for the next few days. When your starter bubbles up every single time on cue when fed then try the recipe again. Build the levain and if that bubbles up then go onto the main dough. In a starter you want strength and predictability.
You might find your starter bubbles up and falls overnight. So how do you know it bubbled up at all and you should feed again? Look for starter clinging to the sides and bubbles on top.
My spelt starter seems quite unlike any of my other starters. Whenever I look at it, it seems weak and more liquid Than any other starter combination. Yet it is beautifully scented. I finally decided to,quit playing with it and mixed a loaf exactly according to Dragon's instruction. Overnight it has bulk fermented very healthily. I didn't think,the starter had the ability to rise as it has. It's proving for the bake now.
Bubble up differently. Rye has hug bubbles and is dramatic and, as you say, spelt is very different. Though it is a bit puzzling with this alternate bubbling up then nothing at all. Could be pressing ahead was ok to do but the final proofing was misjudged as spelt can easily overproof and needs less time then wheat. Difficult to judge from afar and with no photos. Lauren's starter is very young and will benefit from more TLC. Perhaps another attempt soon?
Did you create your spelt starter from scratch or use one of your other starters to create one? Can't wait to see your final loaf.
Hi Abe...
I created my spelt starter about two weeks ago from 4 g of a rye starter (60% hydration) that had been refrigerated for a while. I built it up and then used a small portion to build the 165 g for Dragon's formula.
While I was moving the proved loaf from the banneton, somehow I ended up juggling the dough. And of course you have to keep juggling to get it placed somewhat nicely. Once I got it placed in the Romertoph I quickly put the lid on and put it in the oven. Then I realized I hadn't scored it. So I quickly pulled it out of the oven and did a less than masterful job of scoring. Despite all that the loaf has risen very nicely. I haven't sliced in to it yet since it's too warm.
I have put a photo in the blog section.
So thanks to Laurenmail for asking questions re spelt starter. I think I might well have given up on it just because it performs so differently from other starters. But upon reading this thread it seems my experience is not unique.
Glad you've got some spelt bread now!
One of these days I'll do a time-lapse of my starter builds - the spelt does stay quite runny.
And some days it doesn't go as good as it could be. Mixed up enough for 1 large and 4 smalls last night, got to it this morning and the dough was somewhat slack - did a few stretch and folds on the bench before scaling/shaping/proving, but it was still a bit soft and I did get a stick or 2 in the bannetons. It baked up mostly OK and went to the shop, but I knew it wasn't as good as it could have been. What happened? Who knows - 10g more water? 10g more honey - "probably" ...
-Gordon (anaram of Drogon)
I never get the dough placed perfectly on the tray. It's so annoying! Juggling it about can spoil it so I just above it in the oven and hope that all goes OK.
I keep a 100% hydration whole rye starter (60% is quite low for rye how does it handle?) and just build to preferment requirements. So to build Drogon's 165g starter I'd probably do something along these lines...
23g rye starter + 71g water + 71g spelt flour (1:3:3)
The little rye in the 23g starter won't make much difference. If I wished to be particular then 2 builds to make it almost 100% spelt starter. I think it's easier then keeping a few starters.
Spelt is a lovely grain and congrats on a good bake. Enjoy!
It is a delicious loaf (even though it looks like a wooden shoe). It's not dense and to me is a nice cross between whole wheat and rye for flavor. It must be a hit - half of the loaf is gone and my share has only been my usual one slice so far :)
hi Jane, what a journey eh? I wish I could add some rye. I'm doing this because I have IBS and can only have spelt and only if it's sourdough. Once I started though, I'm like a dog with a bone and I cant give up! Mine so far are all pretty dense still, except the breadtopia version. I need to try Drogons next For sure. The help here is truly amazing and I feel so lucky to have connected with people who are willing to spend the time and effort to help me, it's remarkable!! Good luck with your spelt! Lauren