The Fresh Loaf

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>75% Hydration, shaping the loaf, tips needed

Thanshin's picture
Thanshin

>75% Hydration, shaping the loaf, tips needed

With high hydration dough, I already manage to knead it nicely with no flour, using Bertinet's "slap, pull and fold". However, after the long fermentation I have problems with the loaf shaping.

The technique I'd like to use is dropping the sticky mess on a clean surface, flour the top and shape the loaf by pushing the bottom with the scraper. In principle, the dough sticks to the table and the scraper push creates tension in the top.

My problem is that the scraper sticks strongly to the loaf. I try to put my lightly floured hand against the dough as I quickly retire the scraper, but It still sticks too much and the scraper pulls some dough on the way out.

I'm looking for tips, or ideas about what I could be doing wrong, on that technique or another that also uses minimal amounts flour to to that final shaping.

In case it gives some info: I use a 15" steel scraper over a wooden surface. I have no problem in cleaning the wooden surface with the scraper during/after kneading. I do 1h autolyse->knead->20h fridge fermentation->loaf shaping->3h raise->oven.

markgo's picture
markgo

Are you trying NOT to use a banneton?

Because I had the same mentality and encountered the same challenges -- until I finally became super frustrated, gave up with a purely manual method and bought a 2-piece deal for oval rattan bannetons for my sourdough loaves.

Now, I just shape and load into a banneton, cold retard overnight, and then unload, score, and bake in a dutch oven in the morning.

In short, if you're not against using a proofing basket aka banneton -- that should be your next purchase to take your wet dough bread game to the next level. Or decrease hydration to make your dough stiffer for easier shaping.

 

 

 

Thanshin's picture
Thanshin

Even with a banneton, I do have to shape the loaf, right?

The step I find difficult is what's between "kneaded mass that I can knead into a wet boule" and "terse and thin perfect gluten surface that holds the loaf shape."

I'm looking for tips about how to do what this guy does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEG1BjWroT0

Or knowledge about why his hands and scrapper don't stick so much to his dough.

markgo's picture
markgo

His dough doesn't look >75% hydrated.

Probably ~65%

Please share your formula.

Thanshin's picture
Thanshin

That's one of the points I also wanted to ask. I see plenty of videos who mention "high hydration" and their dough, doesn't look at all like mine.

Mine latest one is : 500g bread flour, 380g water, 100g 80% sourdough.

 

nomolosca's picture
nomolosca

That's the method that I use, and my loaves are generally around 75%. I've found that the dough does tend to stick a little bit, but using my hand to guide the movement of my scraper is very helpful. Basically, I'll have my hand covering about the top half of the scraper. This way, I'm able to remove the scraper and maintain tension by rolling my floured hand under the loaf while pulling the scraper away. It took me a few viewings to catch this element of movement, and it works pretty well for me.

That said, that's only the preshape element. He demonstrates the final shaping with a dusting of flour. I do find that you have to use significantly less dusting flour if you use the 1:1 bread flour to rice flour mixture.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

Try keeping the scraper, and your hands, wet while working the dough. The dough won't stick to anything that's wet.

Thanshin's picture
Thanshin

I tried flouring everything.

I'll try keeping hands and scraper wet next time.

It will be nice if it works, as I'm way less concerned of adding humidity to the dough than of adding flour.

Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread

I agree with Jon - keep your scraper a little wet.

rgconner's picture
rgconner

Few drops of olive oil, nothing sticks.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

Oil could be transferred to the dough and get tucked inside during the shaping, possibly leading to faults in the loaf.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

It is possible that you need to add more strength with more stretch and folds. The other thing is you can try water as mentioned above or oil. Here is Ken Forkish showing the shaping. Maybe this will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPdedk9gJLQ

Edit to add: you can see how well developed the dough is. This is apparent with the dough Chad Robertson has on this video as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIIjV6s-0cA

clazar123's picture
clazar123

If you add too much water you can change or affect the dough. Kind of the opposite of too much bench flour. I wet/dampen my  hand,wrist and scraper. Then I  scrape the dough into a ball in my hand and quickly stretch/ fold it into a ball before plopping it onto my cornmeal covered pan. It becomes immediately apparent when you need to re-dampen your hands,wrist and scraper. Takes practice and some boules are better shaped than others. More "rustic".

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

The scraper is unlikely to retain enough water on its surface to cause a problem.

Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread

Agreed - and most most formulas can take a little more water.  Unlike adding flour it doesn't change the flour/salt/yeast ratios.

suave's picture
suave

Hamelman's ciabatta is 73% hydration.  Just sayin'.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

during the fridge fermentation.  Stretch and folds that is, letter style from each of 4 corners.  Otherwise the dough just goes into such a liquid state with a long fermentation.   I'm surprised it doesn't run off the table before dividing.

Alan.H's picture
Alan.H

I had the problem of impossibly sticky dough for years until I came across an online review of flours available in the UK. This included the flour I was using with the comment that it did produce a slacker dough than the others tested' so for my next bake I used a different strong flour and lo and behold that super-stickiness was no more. From then on my doughs of around 75% hydration have been no more difficult to handle than those shown in all the video demos I have envied for so long. It is worth a try.

(I have searched for but cannot find that review again. I will keep looking and post it if it comes to light.)

I