At the end of my tether
Everything is going well except for my scoring. If my dough is anything higher then 65% hydration it just disappears. I think my shaping is fine. Got a good tight skin and seam is on the bottom. I score the dough and then it just crusts over and breaks out of the side even where there is no seam. I've tried shallow scoring, medium depth scoring, deep scoring. I've tried straight down and at an angle but nothing works. Every single variant just fills in if the dough is any higher then 65% hydration. The bread is good, tasty and rises well. My shaping seems fine and works at lower hydrations. Don't even have more trouble shaping if the dough is under 75% hydration, it seems just as easy. All except this damn scoring. Any ideas?
It's not that the scoring itself is difficult. It seems to go well when doing so. Only when it is in the oven does it go wrong. I have an idea that it crusts over too quickly (introducing steam is IMPOSSIBLE in my oven). So its not the scoring itself but perhaps the wetter doughs take a bit longer to rise and then crust over before the scoring can open up. Could be a steam issue.
Then there is a Heath-Robinson solution to that... ;-)
Put your bread on a greased & floured baking sheet, clap a large stock pot on top of the bread and pop that in the oven. Leave the pot on the bread for about 25 mins before removing. Works well enough for me; I can't put steam in my oven as the door has vents in it...
Won't cost you to try and see if that's the solution to your problems ;-)
Worth a try. What material should the pot be made of? I once did tin foil and it didn't work. Was scared to try again but now I have your word it works I'll invest in something.
I have used a foil pan many times but the key with those is to mist the pan. With heavier lids you don't usually need to.
I picked up all my cloches at the Thrift Shop for virtually nothing. i got an inside of a slow cooker, a thick aluminum pot an oval turkey roaster a couple of large stainless steel mixing bowels a Romertopf chicken roaster, a Chinese sand clay pot. All of them work great and i might have $10 tied up in the lot I have to soak the clay ones before putting them in oven but it's no big deal. They all work better than steaming the oven.
happy cloaching
I'm going to have to go shopping. I think "cloching" is the way to go. Have to find a pot that fits my oven. Is the only answer to the steam problem as my oven is very ventilated and it won't trap steam.
Just put together a really nice recipe. Converted a Levain de Campagne to a YW levain. Haven't touched my YW in the fridge for a couple of weeks. Made the starter this morning and tonight I came home to find its stronger then ever. The smell is amazing! Really alcoholic (I'm intoxicated from just sniffing it) and a lovely hint of vanilla. While I was kneading it into the autolyse the smell was intense. Dough feels good as well. Dropped it down from 71% hydration to 68% as YW dough tends to feel like higher hydration anyway.
Is a large stainless steel job - it will cover a boule made of up to a kilo of dough. It will also cover an 8x4 inch loaf tin. For smaller batards, I use a chicken brick. Both were jumble sale purchases, so no need to splash the cash.
For loaves bigger than a kilo, I put my bread in from a cold start.
It looks like the best option. Tell me... Do you put it in the oven from cold because a larger dough you have to final proof in the chicken brick, as it won't cover over easily when inverted, and you can't put it in a hot oven from cold!?
Does this affect the oven spring?
Very large quantities of dough in a cold oven i.e. when I'm making a loaf that's bigger than a kilo in dough weight. That's because my large 10 x 6 tin or a boule that size (proofed in my big round banneton) simply won't fit under the stock pot. I do have a bigger stock pot that I use for making jams and chutneys, but it won't actually fit in the oven LOL...
Yes, putting dough in from cold does affect the oven spring a little - the scores will open out, but they don't bloom as well as when I bake a smaller bread that does get cloched. But it doesn't seem to have an adverse effect on the crumb quality, which is still light, fluffy and bouncy. I've found if I put an uncovered bread in a hot oven it crusts over very quickly, which then means I get blow outs and wonky breads.
I did inadvertently find that a bread baked under the stock pot actually perfoms best when put into an oven that isn't quite up to temperature. It was serendipity really - I had a bread was threatening to overproof because I got my timings messed up, so I threw it into the oven regardless, with the oven at 150C... I let the oven warm up fully with the bread inside, then continued my bake as usual. Got beautiful spring and bloom, so I now do that every time.
The chicken brick (effectively an oval terracotta dish with a domed lid) will take a batard of up to 700g of dough, btw...
I use double thickness, meaning two sheets together, thick or thin foil. I shape over the empty bread pan or a bowl for the shape and yes, mist the inside.
I can't remember... gas or electric oven? What is the temperature of the oven? When the bread goes in and 10 minutes later.
Scoring high hydration dough is always a last minute decision on my part. Some doughs should not be scored. And some appear ready to bake when they can rise just a tiny bit longer. Bench flour type can also make a difference.
This is a Levain de Campagne recipe I've converted to Yeast Water starter bread. I realise it may be under proofed as the dough was a bit too big for the loaf tin and had to get it into the oven before it grew too big and spilled over the sides. Hence the lopsided explosion. Great rise and smells wonderful. Made a lovely dough which grew imensly in just 8-9 hours and final proofing was quick. You can see in the photos what happens to the scoring. Is it because its under proofed and just filled in when oven springing?
YW reveal themselves!
I have take to lowering the shelf in the oven as it is a small oven and should it rise too much on the middle shelf I'd have problems taking bread out. I'm also trying to keep it further away from the top elements so it doesn't crust over too quickly. But with YW bread it rose so much I was concerned I'd have trouble on the bottom shelf. And in the end I turned the top element on higher so it would crust over quicker otherwise I'd have problems. Just cut into it and even though it has a high proportion of whole wheat and some rye it is as soft as an all white flour loaf. What a texture. Tastes like a wholemeal with the texture of a white loaf. Yeast Water is quite impressive. I enjoy baking with it.
marks? If so, why not extend the parchment and put a fold top seamed tent to trap in steam? When the dough rises to the top of the tent and pushes up thru the paper it will open and allow the top to brown. Sound wacky enough to try?
Wrinkle marks from paper loaf tin liners to me...
BUT... What about trying those roasting bags? If they work for a chicken...
I want to invest in a banneton which is oblong. Fits my bread box. o I've taken to loaf tins for now and those marks are from paper loaf tin liners. Thank you Mini and Reynard for all your suggestions. Something to think about while I come up with an idea for my next bake this weekend.
To work something out...
If you're looking at a large oval banneton (1kg plus capacity), John Lewis does a nice one - I have the round version of the same. You can get free click & collect from most Waitrose shops. Otherwise Amazon do smaller ones - I bought a pair of the oval cane ones earlier in the year and they do just nicely for 500 - 700g of dough.
It crusted over too quickly in the oven - the wonky explosion and unopened scoring looks a lot like what I was getting before I started using a cloche.
My oven has a back element, but I do put the shelf right on the bottom so I can get the baking sheet - stock pot - pizza stone combo in.
Now I get beautiful boules like this... Amazing what difference it can make ;-)
What a difference. That colour in the last one just looks lovely.
It's crazy, isn't it, how such a simple change can make such a whopping difference? Shape *and* colour...
25 mins under the pot at 230C and 20 mins uncovered at 200C is usually more than sufficient to bake a 700g loaf.