August 19, 2015 - 6:15am
Try, Try Again
My first foray into sourdough bread baking was not formulaic, and the results were less than encouraging. See this thread: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43283/enough-enough
Of course I wanted to try again, so I pulled some starter from the fridge on Saturday, and started feeding it. It was originally developed with whole wheat flour, and turned out very thick. This tim, I wanted to try and introduce more all purpose flour, so I've been doing all the feedings with that. However, now I'm concerned that the liquidy-ness is inhibiting the rise. It does rise some, but it's not doubling yet.
Any tips? I expected it to be baking ready by now.
Share
Thicken it up with some flour and see if can double in 4 hours since you have been feeding it already
Happy baking
So, I need to change my ratios? I'm currently tossing 4oz, and adding 4oz each of flour and water.
By weight or by volume?
by weight is the more accurate measure. If you did by volume then the ratio is off. 4oz of flour by volume is not the same weight as 4oz of water by volume.
Another reason Metric is better, if you said ML or Gram, I would know which you were using.
The flour and starter are done by weight on a postal scale. The water is done by volume in a glass measuring cup. I thought that would work based on my research, but maybe I read wrong?
I fed it around noon. I reduced the amount of starter slightly, and replaced 1oz of all purpose flour with whole wheat flour.
A pint is a pound the world 'round, so 4oz of water by volume == 4oz of water by weight.
And you are scaling the flour, so you are good.
Whole wheat is a good idea, it has more "food" for the yeast than white.
Excuse me?
Correct me if I'm wrong, mixinator, but I think that is a true statement. It's like saying 1 cup of feathers versus 1 cup of rocks, right?
Yep, but it is confusing because imperial or standard weights use the same term for volume and mass, but density means it won't be the same.
weigh AP and weigh cake flour, the cake flour is more dense.
The phrase "4 oz by volume" doesn't really make sense because "oz" is a unit of weight. It's like saying something is "6 ft by weight." It doesn't make sense. Similarly, "4 oz by weight" is redundant because because It's like saying an object is "1 lb by weight." When you say "1 lb," you're talking about a weight so adding on "by weight" is not unnecessary.
The problem is from confusing "ounces" with "fluid ounces." If you're talking about volume, the correct unit is "fluid ounces." One cup consists of 8 fluid ounces. 4 fluid ounces of water weighs about 4.2 ounces, so if you measured out 4 fluid ounces of water, you're only off by 5% if you wanted 4.0 ounces of water.
It doubled in 12 hours last night for the first time since I pulled it from the fridge on Saturday. Should I go ahead and try to make bread, or still try for doubling in 4 hours?
double in 4 hours unless the starter and the flour have the same weight. Sounds like the starter needs some more time to boost yeast numbers. Cooler temps ferment slower, warmer temps faster. What's the temp of the starter?
I went ahead an made a loaf yesterday. Not quite the crash-and-burn my first one was, but still not the glorious turnout I was hoping for.
A friend has been using this recipe successfully for several weeks, so I decide to give it a try: http://www.food.com/recipe/basic-sourdough-bread-34753
I fed my starter around 10:15AM, and mixed up the bread around 4:30PM. The starter hadn't quite risen to the 16oz mark on my measuring cup, but I decided to use it anyway. I never fully incorporated the full 3 cups of bread flour the recipe called for. The dough felt good with about 1 1/2 cups, but I kept persevering. Finally, though, all that kneading was starting to concern me, and I just decided to trust my gut, and not add any more flour. The rise was, once again, less than stellar. I finally popped it into the oven around 8:30. Flavor is not so potently sour as my last loaf, but it's still a bit too gummy and dense on the inside. Much more palatable than my last one though.
Just not sure why I keep having poor luck. The starter looks fine in the container, and it is doubling itself. When I actually want to use it, though, it looses all motivation. I'm going to try again with this recipe, but make sure I have a full 16oz (by volume) of starter before starting. I may also try to use it closer to the feeding time.
and preferably tells you the hydration of the starter.
The recipe you're using makes it easy to use different amounts by weight of flour each time and doesn't provide precise information on the hydration of either the mother or proofed starter. So the dough can be fairly different each time, which certainly doesn't help in learning how it behaves and what it should look and feel like at different stages, or in producing consistent bakes.
When I started over two years ago now, I started with formulas that were somewhat complex too. I was not a novice bread baker but I was to SD baking. It didn't take long before I switched to the 1-2-3 formula and kept mixing that all the while still baking more complex formulas just to satisfy myself. It all got better with time and practice and patience.
I think that practicing with that 1-2-3 method for the inexperienced is a very good way to go. You can bake big or small very easily and you can easily experiment with hydration levels, flour blends and so on.
Last but not least I do not think you can ever read/research/absorb too much information. Somebody's experience will be your salvation or your inspiration.
Above all - patience!
What is the 1-2-3 method?
I only recently started experimenting with baking by weight (even outside of SD), and I like the time it saves. What flabbergasts me about the recipe versus my results is that so many people raved about it. I can't imagine they would rave about a loaf that didn't rise, and if they didn't have a successful starter, their bread wouldn't rise properly. ???? How can they stumble onto the right formula, while I miss it? Oh well. It's a great adventure!
rise to maximum height between feeds and not just to double. Let it rise until it levels out and starts to fall back. Then feed it or use it.
There are lots of threads on the 1,2,3 method. Basically 1 part starter weight to 2 parts water weight with 3 parts flour weight with 2% salt on the flour weight.
Example 100g starter to 200g water and 300g flour with 2% on 350g (50g flour in the starter too) or 7g salt.
...that confuses me. If we let the starter rise to maximum height and then use it, how does it have any more rise to give? Does it start feeding off the new flour added? I'll look into the 1-2-3.
Question 2: I'm kind of getting tired of throwing out so much starter. I know you can use it for other things, but that's not something I have time for right now. If I know I need 16oz of starter for my recipe, can I start with a very small amount so that once all the feeding is done, I will have just over 16oz? Does that make sense?
1. When you use your starter in your recipe its getting a big feed this time in the form of the dough and the flour will be food.
2. Here is where preferments are good. Store your starter in the fridge and take a little off to build "up" to the required amount. No need for discard. Whole rye keeps very well in the fridge but if you bake often then bread flour is fine. When you run low simply top it up. Find a good amount to keep at any one time. No need to build hundreds of grams. I build about 150g to store in the fridge and each time I bake I'll take a little off for a pre-ferment. When it gets down to about a tablespoon I'll take it out, feed it, allow it to bubble up by half and return it to the fridge. Carefully managed you won't need to discard.
If you do find you have loads extra and you are discarding then how about sourdough pancakes. Yum!
I have seen a lot of recipes lately for unfed sourdough (aka discard). Besides pancakes (or waffles might be even better), there are pretzels, cracker, etc. I have been wanting to try this one as well:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2011/12/30/buttery-sourdough-buns-a-new-take-on-sourdough/
I think I mentioned this briefly above, but I really want to get to a completely unhealthy, but oh-so-yummy, white flour bread. However, my starter seems unable to thrive on it: it's too runny to rise. Maybe the brand of flour we're buying? With this last loaf, I did a mix of whole wheat and white for feedings, and it seemed to work well.
Won't rise as much because its high hydration. But it doesn't mean it hasn't got full potential to rise bread. A strong bread flour sourdough starter at 100% hydration will rise but will have smaller bubbles then a wholewheat starter at the same hydration. Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough has a starter which is 125% hydration and when mature there are loads of tiny bubbles but not much rise. The final bread however has no trouble rising as it is 65% hydration. BTW 100% hydration is equal measures flour and water by WEIGHT! Just to make sure you're measuring correctly. What flour do you use?
...very enlightening! So even if my starter isn't doubling itself, as long as it appears active, it should work? I am measuring the starter and flour by weight and the water by volume. I'm using store brand all purpose and whole wheat flours.
As long as the reason is a too high hydration and/or flour being used and not because of poor health. But you said adding in wholewheat helps which seems to suggest hydration because wholewheat needs more water and it'll therefore be thicker. As long as there are yeasts and LAB which are nice and active your starter should make bread even if it did rise too much because of too high hydration.
So 100% hydration will be 120g flour + 120g water (which is 120ml or 1/2cup)
So providing your starter is already 100% hydration if you take 60 starter and feed it 60g flour + 60g water (or 60ml or 1/4 cup) that'll be a feed of 1:1:1 and it'll be 100% hydration.
Why don't you also weigh your water?
I also want to make sure you aren't using bleached flour. Won't be good for starters. In fact wholegrain has lots of goodies for starters which could also be another reason it likes it.
Next step is for you to show us what your doing with a before and after photo.
... when I just use all purpose flour, I've been adding too much water for all purpose flour (too high hydration)? If you haven't guessed yet, I'm a complete greenhorn about sourdough baking! I'm actually fairly confident in the kitchen, but this has really thrown me for a loop.
There's no one "correct" hydration, right? It's more about what the baker wants from the finished product?
I'm not sure if our all purpose flour is unbleached. I need to go buy some more today, so I'll make sure to check for that.
I didn't think weighing the water was necessary, but I can certainly start doing that.
I'll try to get some photos. Thanks ever so much!
True! Depends what you want in the final loaf. Cross that bridge later.
Try to get hold of some strong bread flour too.
Weighing is always best. Often those marks on the side of measuring cups is a little... sloppy. I have returned or thrown out measuring spoons that are ridiculously off measurement. One set of very nice stainless steal ones from a kitchen supply house were about 25% off on sizing. The tablespoon was close to 4 teaspoons!
Unless you are like me and tend to use chemistry flasks in the kitchen to measure fluid volume... it is a mad scientist thing... then "ml" is the same as "mg" for water, and only water.
Well, I discovered that our last bag of all-purpose flour was bleached, so I purchased unbleached this time!
However. I was going to put my starter into the fridge for hibernation, but it smells kind of like nail polish remover. I've been nursing this thing for like 4 weeks, so I know starter has a smell, but...
Should I pitch it?
What is your long term plan for your starter? Why is it going into hibernation?
A step in the right direction. Bleached flour has no goodness in it for yourself or your starter.
Your starter is young still and will probably benefit from a bit more TLC before you refrigerate. That nail polish remover smell will go but carry on feeding it for the time being but make sure it's a 1:2:2 or a 1:3:3 feed. Let's get your starter stronger and more mature before you refrigerate. Perhaps a few more days?
I keep my starter as 100% whole rye. Whole Rye Starters are very hardy and they can last a while in the fridge between feeds. They get less hooch and it takes more time. Plus, whole rye has lots of goodness for the starter. So I don't know if that's an option you're willing to take...?
Another good formula which a friend of mine does is 70% bread flour + 24% whole wheat + 6% whole rye.
If you're going to bake often enough so you feed your mother starter, which lives in the fridge, once a week or every two weeks then 100% hydration will be fine. But if you mean by hibernation.... that you'll be baking less often then perhaps go for 80% hydration. Making it thicker will help if it's going to be longer between feeds.
So what's your plan?
The plan was to get it to a point I could keep it in the fridge and bake bread maybe once or twice a month. Thus, the "hibernation" term. Meaning: I'm done feeding it every day.
However. It got seriously moldy overnight, and I had already scraped a little off on Sunday (plus, I've been a bit lazy the past few days, and haven't been feeding it as I should) I think I'm going to pitch it, and start completely over with the unbleached flour. I don't think we have any fresh Rye.
Again, I'd like to not throw out so much, so I'm thinking about doing smaller amounts. Kind of like this method:
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/11/sourdough-along-day-1-how-to-make-sourdough-starter.html
Think that would work?
Thanks!!!
Whole Rye is the way to go then. If you really can't get hold of any then how about 70% bread flour + 30% wholewheat but at a lower hydration. This way it'll keep for a while in-between feeds. Now when your starter is ready for "hibernation" (rather like how I keep mine) you'll feed it and only allow it to bubble up by half and then refrigerate. You'll keep a small amount at any one time and twice a month you'll take a little off to build with. When it runs low you'll take it out of the fridge and feed it, allow it to bubble up by half and return it to the fridge.
This is basically my schedule except I bake every week with it and top it up every other week. So I only top it up to get max 150g and take a little off each time. Once it gets down to about a tablespoon i'll feed it again.
Once your starter is viable (if you choose to start again) then carry on feeding it for one more week till it's good and strong ready for taking up residence in your fridge.
Now viable starter should not go seriously mouldy after one night of neglect. Can you show us a photo? Is it salvageable you think? Whether you choose to start again or not (but don't hurry into this yet till we've established it is necessary) that does look like a good starter method. There are many and all good. It's just flour + water + time. My only advice is to feed when necessary and not before (many over feed thinking it'll go quicker) which is what this site seems to be saying and use non chlorinated water. If your tap water is chlorinated then boiled water which has cooled to room temperature will work. Does your starter have any red/orange spots? Does any part of it look normal?
Well, this evening, it looks less moldy...more like it bubbled up, then deflated, and then the bubbles dried out. It formed a scale/skin on top again today. I think it's also worth noting that the current starter is a hodge podged mess of bits and pieces thrown together: the tablespoon of healthy starter I scrambled to collect when I forgot to keep some back, the 1/4c or so from the cast off bits I'd been collecting, and one feeding several days back. :(
I don't think it has any distinct red/orange spots, and it looks normal-ish throughout. It's just the top that looks funky, plus the odor.
healthy in no time. Doesn't look bad and that looks like it's dried out on top but not mouldy. So here's a schedule...
Over the next few days feed your starter like so:
1. At a ratio of 1:3:3
2. Using boiled tap water that has cooled to room temperature
3. 70% bread flour and 30% whole wheat
4. 100% hydration
5. Once a day (many feed theirs every 12 hours when left at room temperature but I don't think you need to drive yourself crazy. Starters won't die if they don't eat every 12 hours)
So here's what to do:
Take off all but 20g of your starter (put the rest to one side until ready to discard).
To this remaining 20g add 60g water and stir till the starter is fully distributed. Use the water to wash down the sides of the jar too.
Then add 60g flour (42g bread flour + 18g whole wheat).
Mix well and pat down (scraping down the sides so there aren't bits of starter clinging)
Cover so that bugs can't get in but gas can escape and leave in warm area.
When all has gone without hitch then discard what you took off.
Take a photo. Then after 12 hours take another photo and post both of them here so we can see how your starter is doing.
This is the feeding schedule every 24 hours over the next few days.
[If your starter has no trouble at least doubling in 12 hours, and you have the time, then by all means feed every 12 hours if you wish!]
When your starter is stronger (I think it shouldn't take too long) then you can think about keeping it in the fridge and you won't be slave to your starter anymore.
Hope that's ok.
What a lifesaver, AbeNW11! Like a personal Google! Will do.
Part 1.
Did as instructed, but I wasn't 100% sure our bread flour was unbleached, so I went with all purpose. Also, next feeding will have to be closer to 30 hours from the first due to my work schedule.
is the way to go. In the UK bleached flour is banned. Even our white bread flour has some bran in it. So it's more off white after being baked.
Looks good. Looking forward to the 12 hour mark result. No problem if you can' feed exactly on the 24 hour mark. If it was any longer i'd say refrigerate it till you can get back on schedule but I think you should be fine. As a general rule if your starter is slow and hasn't risen or bubbled then wait till it has. Overfeeding thinking it'll make it quicker and stronger is often counter productive.
Commercial (UK) white flour is almost always roller milled - this is very effective at taking out the bran and wheatgerm, so what's left is almost white, but actually a natural very pale cream colour. Shipton Mill's No. 4 flour is a good example of this.
The big industrial producers do further sift roller milled flour to make it even whiter. (because that's what the "British householder" wants - apparently)
I'm trialling a stoneground flour which has then been sifted the olde-fashioned way - that removes all the bran but leaves in some of the wheatgerm - which (sadly) bakes to a greyish colour )-: Great taste, interesting to bake with, but not that well liked in my "blonde" loaves...
-Gordon
people like their bread a certain colour. It's like they'll buy white but if it's slightly off white they won't have it. Surely it's about taste. Sadly people have an "idea" what bread should be like and won't have it any other way. I say try the bread and if you like it, go for it. Yes, we do have white flour here but it's not quite as white after it's been baked. So yes, a natural pale cream colour. In the USA they have white and bleached. And don't get me started on our differences when it comes to understanding what AP flour is.
P.s. Perhaps commercial bread producers do go for a more white flour but for home baking I've yet to find this. Not that I want it :)
Name that movie reference! ;)
Seriously, though...definitely rose overnight! Smells much nicer too. I can get a photo at the 12 hour mark tomorrow morning.
Now. I am supposed to discard all but 20g every time I feed, correct? Once it's nice a healthy, I pull off a couple grams to build up for baking?
is up to you. If you don't discard, you end up with a lot more starter is all.
Sounds as if its doing well. Looking forward to the photo.
Like Arjon said, if you do not discard at this stage then you'll be building up too much starter. If each time you're feeding it 1:3:3 then before long you'll have a barrel full. However, once your starter is healthy and takes up residence in your fridge then there'll be no discard and no more slavery to your starter. You'll be taking off a little at a time to build your pre-ferments and when it runs low you'll top it up. Easy!
Give it a few more days and once your starter has no trouble at least doubling within 12 hours, after it has been fed, then you can try it on a recipe. Should it be successful then your starter should be ready for the refrigerator. So is there a recipe you wish to try? Have a think about it. Or do you wish me to recommend one?
Have you successfully baked with this starter before?
Now when it comes to building you have some freedom of expression here. A recipe might recommend how to build your pre-ferment and you can follow that or sometimes a recipe just asks for so much mature starter in which case as long as you have the correct amount of mature starter then there is no one single correct way of doing this. As we have said you have freedom of expression so depending on how much time you have or how long it's been since your starter has been fed or if you wish your bread to be mellow or tangy etc you will have a few choices. But at the end of the day if the recipe asks for 150g mature starter then you'll take a little off from the one in the fridge and build to 150g.
Now i'm off to find the source of that quote :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eRKVpN66c
But its been a while since I've seen it.
Here's a photo 10 hours post feeding. It may be hard to tell, but it rose quite nicely! I could see it deflate when I picked it up. Is that a concern?
Would LOVE a recipe suggestion.
I have baked twice with this starter, but I wouldn't call either attempt a roaring success as the rise was hardly worthy of the name.
Probably because it's reached it's max height and is beginning to fall. Sounds good to me. Of course it's easier to tell if it was in a glass jar. How about a few more feeds to make sure and then a test bake?
What do you have at your disposal?
Do you have a dough hook?
Are you going to make it all by hand?
Do you have a banneton?
Are you going to bake it freestanding or on a baking tray?
What are you looking for in a sourdough?
Yes, I had been storing it in a glass measuring cup, but we need it for cooking throughout the week, so I had to switch to something else.
If I'm going to test bake within the next few days, should I start building it up? If so, I supposed I'll need to adjust the amounts of flour and water added, to maintain the 1:3:3 ratio?
We do have a dough hook for our KitchenAid mixer, but I've never been a huge fan. I feel like it over works the dough because it doesn't incorporate the ingredients very efficiently. I prefer to knead by hand (unless we're use the bread machine).
No, we don't have a banneton. We do have loaf pans, cookie sheets, a circular pizza stone, and a cast iron dutch oven.
Right now, I just be happy with a decent loaf for toast or maybe sandwiches (I've always found homemade bread tough to get right for sandwiches). I like some sourness, but not too much.
You will maintain your feeding schedule for your starter. This will not change till we have a successful bake. 12 hours before you plan on making your actual dough you'll do a build from the last discard. In the meantime I'll come up with a recipe. Sound like a plan? Just give me 24 hours notice before you wish to bake.
Sounds awesome! We may try for baking on Wednesday.
Mini Oven! You got it! Movie quotes are almost like a second language for some in our family, and that one gets tossed around a lot.
These 1:3:3 feeds you've been doing was to build the strength of your starter. When it comes to baking and building your preferments you'll have more freedom of expression. So to with maintenance of your starter. You might be following a recipe that gives you a build so by all means follow it. Or you might be doing your own build so by all means follow your instinct which youll develop the more you bake with your starter. But by no means every time you build or feed your starter will it always be 1:3:3. More on that later.
Wednesday sounds good. So Tuesday night you'll feed your starter then from the discard you'll build your pre-ferment to be used in your dough on Wednesday.
So you have a Breadmaker. My friend has one and we have developed a nice formula for a sourdough. What make is it and does it have a French bread setting? Might be good for the first bread just to test your starter. Only if you wish! Sounds like you prefer by hand but just thought I'd let you know that it can be done so in the future if you don't have time etc you can do a breadmaker one.
Try and get some strong bread flour and whole rye flour. Strong bread flour to get a good oven spring and whole rye adds depth of flavour. I'm thinking of a nice rustic country loaf which is a mix of bread, whole wheat and rye flour.
Right, off to check Mini's link.
Just a thought - and if you have some spare starter after all your building!!
I assume your starter is 100% hydration - same weight flour and water - from what I've read
Take 100g starter in a plastic tub. Add 270g water (ideally distilled or left to rest, but I often don't bother). Mix well to distribute the starter. Add 380g flour - strong bread flour is my preference - all white is fine. Mix well. Leave covered for half an hour. Add 7g salt, mix very well (I do with a spoon) and leave covered. Every 30mins or so mix really well - pull from one end to the other, and back again. Do this about 6 times. Wait until you see lots of bubbles and it is roughly doubled in size (hence the plastic tub).
Shape with minimal extra flour (don't whatever you do think about knocking it back - you want the bubbles!). Cover lightly and leave for approx 3 hours - check with the "poke test" - is it springing back? You want it not quite springing back. Slash and bake as you've said - if you have a dutch oven, should get good rise...
Good luck!
Tomorrow will hopefully be bake day! I've been feeding every 24ish hours. However, I forgot to feed Saturday night, so the feedings are now in the morning. AbeNW11: you originally mentioned feeding Tuesday night and baking on Wednesday. Does this change anything? I could do an additional feeding this evening, if necessary. I wind up with about 136g of starter before a feed.
But you don't have private messages enabled. If your starter is doubling, and is strong, within 12 hours then by all means feed as usual the night before and with the discard go onto the recipe. You'll be building the specified starter build as the recipe suggests. It is to a higher hydration and will bubble up differently. Don't worry. Any questions please let me know.
VERMONT SOURDOUGH
by
Jeffrey Hamelman
Bakers’ Percentages
Flour : 100% [90% bread flour, 10% rye]
Water : 54.5% [Final hydration including levain : 65%]
Salt : 1.9%
Levain : 39.76% [20% starter + 125% water + 100% bread flour]
Final Recipe
Flour : 490g [440g bread flour, 50g rye]
Warm Water : 267g
Salt : 10g
Levain : 196g @ 125% hydration
STARTER BUILD (from the discard): 14g starter + 102g water + 80g bread flour [12-14 hours before].
METHOD
That is one of my favorites, although I think his Vermont Sourdough with increased whole grains is even better if you like a little more tang in the bread.
One thing to note is that Hamelmann uses a 125% hydration starter so there is a small conversion for using 100% hydration starters. If you don't want to do the math, Susan has done it for you here (plus I can't remember if her technique adds anything):
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/my-new-favorite-sourdough/
Or the increased whole grain version:
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/more-sour-sourdough/
I agree that this formula is highly recommended and i often will come back to this one after experimenting with others.
for a more flavorful bread that happens to be more nutritious and healthier for you! Same thing goes for David Snyder;s SFSD and SJSD - Both of these great breads are better with more whole grains in them and as David has published with his increased whole grain versions. I think they are even better with even more whole grains in them :-)
Just returned from a late shopping trip to pick up the unbleached bread flour and rye. Starter tripled itself within 12 hours today! That combined with all the wonderful help I've found here, and I'm hopeful that third time will be the charm. Fingers crossed.
...and I don't have a banneton. Substitutes?
How about a Colander lined with a tea towel that has been liberally dusted with flour?
Some last minute advice...
There is a good youtube video on kneading techniques. I'm on my work computer at the moment so can't access it so i'll try to describe it. With the heel of your palm push the dough out away from you then fold the dough back over on itself (while holding the edge of the dough closest to you with your other hand if that helps). So it's a sort of stretch and fold but with a kneading technique. Then turn the dough 45 degress and repeat... with the heel of your hand push away and the fold the dough back over on itself. Keep on doing this each time turn the dough 45 degrees. This should really develop the gluten well quite quickly. It'll begin to feel stronger and less sticky. When you poke it and it bounces straight back up then it's done.
The starter build is 125% hydration so there will be less rise but more bubbles breaking the surface.
Anything else you wish to ask then don't hesitate. Best of luck.
poof - a banneton is born. Any large bowl will do the same.thing when lined with a rice floured non terry cloth towel, I don't have any bannetons either. i just went to Goodwill on Dollar Thursday's and got a dozen baskets of different sizes and shapes for 50 cents each. I also got a few large oven proof pots of various shapes for cloches for a buck each and a very good baking baking stone too for $2. No need to spend a lot off money to bake bread that costs $1 each The only things i haven't fount=d there are scales and an instant read thermometers. Plenty of bread machines to choose from too but they make such horrible bread it isn't worth it for me - but if was arthritic or handicapped, having it do the work if kneading would be a blessing adn way better than store bought bread.
Happy baking
I noticed that oven temperature wasn't indicated in the recipe...
Everyone's oven seems to be different and behaves differently and I never bake in a dutch oven so I left that to you as that is your preferred method. Would be my preferred method if I could. I generally pre-heat to 230C as that is the highest my oven goes to then i'll bake on 200-210C. But I always do my breads freestanding. How a Dutch Oven works and at what temperature i'm not quite sure.
And this looks interesting http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/2009/03/11/baking-bread-in-a-dutch-oven
We have success!! The best loaf thus far thanks to all the wonderful help from this group!!
I only had 186g of starter, but it didn't seem to negatively affect the turnout.
Just tasted the finished product, and it was bit overly chewy. Is that something I did wrong, or does this recipe yield a chewy loaf? Also seemed a bit moist inside... maybe I needed to cook it longer? Good flavor! I was a bit concerned about the rise before putting it in the oven, but it puffed nicely during baking!
The reserved starter sat out all night after feeding, and then I put it in the fridge this morning. I'll feed it in a week with a 1:3:3 ratio, right?
Characteristics of sourdough tends to be more chewy then yeasted loaves. The strong gluten flour will also make it more chewy but it's better for oven spring. That is why people use AP flour or a mix of AP and Strong Bread flour. I happen to like the chewy texture so it's a win win for me. That crust looks great and from the sound of things the flavour came out well and it will continue to improve. The moist inside probably means it needs a bit longer in the oven. Lovely bake!
BTW... starters lose 10g through fermentation. sometimes I don't worry about this and other times i'll take that into account and make 10g extra.
Now for maintenance of your starter. For however many bakers there are on this site there are ways of maintaining ones starter. I can only advise you what I do which will give you ideas and no doubt you'll learn ideas from everyone on this site and according to your own needs. Eventually you'll devise your own maintenance schedule.
I return my starter to the fridge when it hasn't peaked yet and begun to fall. Don't forget it'll carry on in the fridge albeit more slowly. So when you return it to the fridge you want it to have some food left to feed on allowing you to leave it longer between feeds.
You may also find that bread flour, or AP flour, starters develop more hooch then all whole rye starters. So they do tend to need more TLC. If I were you i'd peter off the feeds rather then going straight into lengthy times between feeds. So perhaps for the moment come what may do weekly feedings. See how your starter reacts. Then fortnightly after a month or so. Find a good balance for your feeding schedule so you don't have any discard, you keep enough to go for however long you wish for between feeds but not too long. For example if you wish to bake once a week and wish to feed every two weeks then build enough around this. You'll find a balance.
so my schedule is feed my starter. Allow it to bubble up by half and then return it to the fridge. I'll take a little off each time to bake with and when it runs low (no less than 1 tablespoon) i'll feed it again.
I'm not so exact with how much I feed it. This 1:3:3 feed you've been doing is a good strong feed to bring your starter to maturity and good health. With my method i'll keep it at 100% hydration so it will be equal amounts of flour + water by weight. When it runs low then i'll simply top it up. Invariably it's always a good feed but never sure exactly what ratio it is to the starter. So it might be 1:3:3 or even 1:4:4. But even if it's 1:2:2 that's also fine. But with this method it'll never be a poor feed as it's run low and i'm topping it up to last a couple of weeks.
Now it's up to you what flour you wish to use. Just don't use bleached. Rye is easy but other flours are fine. A nice formula is 70% bread flour (or AP if you wish) + 24% whole wheat + 6% whole rye. If your starter develops hooch it means it is hungry. If you wish for a less tangy starter then carefully take off the hooch before feeding. If you wish for a more tangy starter then stir it back in.
Now if I find I have enough starter in the fridge and it's built to the required specs then sometimes i'll use it straight from the fridge. Other times i'll take some off and build. Sometimes i'll do a two stage build. You'll find everyone here has ideas on this. ALL CORRECT. Just remember that a very active starter that has had a 2 stage build will work quicker then if you take it straight from the fridge when it's been a couple of weeks since the last feed. So you've got to go by feel in a recipe to. Some recipes give you a build so by all means follow that as they've taken this into consideration. You might think your starter needs to be stronger in which case a few builds will benefit you. You'll get to know your starter.
Well that's all I can think of for the time being. Any questions don't hesitate to ask.