Better-shaped loaves by avoiding overproofing
Over the weekend, I received some really useful advice from active members of this forum on avoiding over-proofed sourdough loaves (too warm and too long). My weekend bake was more of a disc than a boule. With help I produced a much better loaf at 65% hydration, as shown in this post.
I commend other readers to the comments from KathyF, FrugalBaker and AbeNW11 at http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43117/search-height.
I was particularly struck by comments from FrugalBaker, which may be use for others facing similar problems:
- Reduce the quantity of levain.
- Reduce proofing time. Try keeping the entire process from autolyse to final shaping to not more than 3 hours (I was proving at 27°C).
- Cold fermentation (keep dough in the fridge overnight after final shaping and proving). Not only that you can avoid the over-proving problem, your bread will taste better.
- Creating surface tension is vital when it comes to shaping as this is the step that will determine how your dough rises.
I feel like I've turned a corner with sourdough baking as a result of putting my earlier bake up on here for constructive comment. Many thanks to those who take the time to comment on questions from relative newbies, like me.
Happy baking, Colin.
Tasty-looking bread, Colin :-)
That's what I love about this place - it's a goldmine of information and experience, especially for those of us who are newcomers to bread baking. It's nice that people are so giving of their time and advice. I've taken on board similar info by reading around on here and am baking fewer frisbees - have had to un-learn a lot in order to move forward with sourdoughs, but hey :-)
Shaping is where I really fall flat on my face. Have been reading up on that, and my oven is hopefully getting fixed today, so tomorrow (assuming things go to plan) I'm going to try and put into practice what I've learnt in the interim...
Thank you and hope you managed to get your oven fixed. There are some good showing videos on YouTube, if you haven't seen them already. I found them very helpful.
Yes thanks, it's been fixed. I've made changes to my shaping, but now I've gone from baking frisbees to baking exploding loaves. At least they still taste great if nothing else...
Really nice crumb. Looks lovely and soft with a crunchy crust.
No turning back now.
Enjoy!
- Abe.
Thanks Abe, this bake has done wonders for my motivation, particularly as I knew It could be up to two weeks before I could find the time to bake again. Your help has been invaluable. Happy baking. Colin
You really did get some height to that loaf! Looks great. And the crumb looks great too. I bet it tastes good!
Thanks, KathyF. I don't feel like I have quite done justice to your original bake which inspired me, but I am at least on the way. Thanks for your help. Happy baking, Colin.
the flour in the UK is so different from the US it is hard to give advice. 65% hydration would be considered very low over here when using AP Flour. If you can get your hands on some Canadian AP flour then you should be able to get the hydration up to 72% and really open that crumb up. The key to this kind of baking is to only final proof to 50-75% like David Snyder does here at 75% hydration, AP flour (w/ 10% whole grain), a 21 hour retard for his San Joaquin. Keep after it, you are off to a great start.
Well done and happy baking. It is only a matter of time before handling wet dough is 2nd for for you.
the flour in the UK is so different from the US it is hard to give advice. 65% hydration would be considered very low over here when using AP Flour. If you can get your hands on some Canadian AP flour then you should be able to get the hydration up to 72% and really open that crumb up. The key to this kind of baking is to only final proof to 50-75% like David Snyder does here at 75% hydration, AP flour (w/ 10% whole grain), a 21 hour retard for his San Joaquin. Keep after it, you are off to a great start.
Well done and happy baking. It is only a matter of time before handling wet dough is 2nd for for you..
the flour in the UK is so different from the US it is hard to give advice. 65% hydration would be considered very low over here when using AP Flour. If you can get your hands on some Canadian AP flour then you should be able to get the hydration up to 72% and really open that crumb up. The key to this kind of baking is to only final proof to 50-75% like David Snyder does here at 75% hydration, AP flour (w/ 10% whole grain), a 21 hour retard for his San Joaquin. Keep after it, you are off to a great start.
Well done and happy baking. It is only a matter of time before handling wet dough is 2nd for for you..
San Joaquin Sourdough.
Hi - many thanks. Advice from everyone on here has been so helpful. There really must be a difference between European and U.S. flours, as following a >70% hydration formula produces such a slack sticky mess that doesn't look like the photos! San Joaquin Sourdough is on my list, but I want to get this proving right first. For once in my life I am content to learn to walk, rather than run. Many thanks and happy baking. Colin.
While you have a range for hydration [lower = tighter crumb and higher = more open crumb], what will simply be a high hydration loaf for a North American flour will be a sloppy mess for a European flour.
So there while there isn't an exact hydration for a particular flour and you do have freedom of expression to go higher or lower just remember that a 65% hydration with a European flour will feel the same as a 70%+ hydration for a North American flour. So if you're following a recipe from the US which asks for a 65% hydration dough remember it'll feel like a 70%+ hydration dough to you. Doesn't mean you can't make it work though but remember there is a discrepancy here. When you get into the very high hydration doughs then you run into problems.
Hi Abe, You definitely seem to be onto something here. I'll pick up some Waitrose Canadian bread flour at some point and see how it compares; It would be an interesting experiment. I'm rather fond of Allinson flours, which seem rather more thirsty than some other brands. The Strong White Flour also comes in handy 3kg bags. Happy baking, Colin.
Thanks to all of you for your comments, and apologies for not acknowledging them sooner. Working life, and a visit to family, has kept me from bread musing since this earlier post, and I have only just managed to feed my slightly hoochy starter ready for baking on a much needed day off today. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Happy Baking. Colin