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Cold retarding timing help..

bread1965's picture
bread1965

Cold retarding timing help..

Hi Everyone.. last week I made the FWSY recipe for 50% whole wheat with biga... i learned that my room temp was too high and the overnight bulk fermentation went too far and over proofed (?) my dough..

Based on everyone's feedback I'm going to try and cold retard the dough overnight. Here's my question. I have the option of putting the dough in my fridge (probably about 35 - 40 degrees) or in a cold cellar that sits at a pretty constant 55 degrees..

Which environment would be better (of course the dough would be covered) and for how long. The recipe calls for 12 - 14 hours of bulk fermentation..

I'm tempted to go with 55 degrees for the same 12 hours or so and see how it goes.. do you think the flavour would suffer much if that's too cold versus a room at 65 - 70?

In advance, thank you for the advice!!!

amber108's picture
amber108

Id be going for the fridge, about 5C - 41f) to 7C - 44.5f) would work I think.

Most domestic fridges are around 4C, and no your flavour wont suffer at all :) Just make sure its airtight with space to rise.

Hope that helps, Amber

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and see how it goes.  That is the most convenient.  Put a big bright sticky note on the coffee maker or the fridge so you remember the dough in the morning.  :)  

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

The overnight bulk fermention was the pre-ferment of the Biga. The actual bulk fermention is the 2.5 - 3.5 hours after the final dough is made and before the shaping. With the amount of yeast used in the biga I highly doubt it over fermented in the recommended time unless it was really hot through the night. So if you're still worried that was the problem then go with cellar. Forkish suggests 12-14 hours so why not stick at room temperature closer to 12 hours? Also how accurate are your scales in measuring the very precise amount of yeast in grams which he gives to 1 decimal point? The overnight biga will be very ripe, appear all bubbly and smell of alcohol. Then you refresh the dough and thicken it up with fresh flour ready for the shorter bulk fermention and then a 1 hour final proof. 

 

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

The overnight recommendation of 12-14 hours takes into account of the temperature being 65-70 F. 

hreik's picture
hreik

takes my vote.

hester

bread1965's picture
bread1965

Hi Everyone, thanks.. Abe, you're right, the overnight pre-ferment is for the biga. When I woke last week I did get some bubbles and that 'alcohol' smell - but it wasn't super active. I had maybe half a dozen bubbles visible in the morning. No moon crater appearance on the surface of the biga. The room was probably just over the mid 70s in temp.. which is why I think I over did it. But the yeast called for in the biga is so small, would it even matter? I recently bought a digital scale that measures to a fraction of a gram. I'm assuming it's good but I have no proof. My 'test' is to look at the weighed amount and compare it to a quarter teaspoon measurement to sense if it seems what I would expect, and it is. Maybe the real issue last week was letting the secondary morning bulk fermentation grow too far. I"m going to measure my bowl carefully this week to measure the rise.  I'll take room temp throughout the night and post the results tomorrow afternoon. Wish me luck!

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

So have just finished shaping the dough. It is now final proofing. For the biga I used plain flour and for the main dough I added khorasan flour. You were so right, its a very sticky dough. I was caught off guard and my dough smelled fear. Managed to shape it (eventually) and get it into the banneton. Now I can only wait and see. 

Best of luck with yours. Looking forward! I'll post an update here of how mine goes. 

bread1965's picture
bread1965

Many of his recipes in the book are very sticky.. but well worth trying.. good luck and post pictures!

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Was trying out a new romertopf. Everything went fine. Nice dough even though sticky. Good gluten formation and final proofed perfectly. My biggest let down is my oven. It's nothing more then a fancy toaster. Was trying this romertopf to improve things but yet again it doesn't fit. Tried so many things now. Not built to fit anything of this nature. Couldn't use the lid so inverted the base as a make do. Didn't go over the dough properly... I imagine only a cupcake sized dough would do. Bottom of dough was done very quickly. Inside the romertopf didn't heat up properly. Whole thing was a huge mess. Can't return it as its used but no use nor ornament to me. Didn't wish to clean something I'll never use again so tossed the whole lot. Until I move and can afford a real oven I won't be spending anymore on trying to improve a toaster. 

drogon's picture
drogon

Doesn't sound like a good weekend...

Have you got space for a standard domestic oven? The one I bought which worked 6 days a week for a year up to 250C was a Beko - the cheapest in the range. £195 from my local Euronics place. I sat it on a countertop for a long time too and just connected up some 13A cable and ordinary plug (it's a 2Kw element, so well inside the limits).

I still use it now, just once or twice a week. I have replaced the element and thermostat though.

-Gordon

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

It's a studio apartment so can't get too busy. I'm getting good results and just thought I'd try and get that extra mile. But tricks of the trade aren't working. My situation at the moment doesn't help matters much. Studio apartment and all that. Throwing money after bad is proving to be a bad idea. When you're in a hole... Stop digging! I've tried this and that and I've learned my lesson.

Not all bad... Made a chocolate cake to cheer myself up. Like you suggested ;)

Arjon's picture
Arjon

and see which one works better to fit your preferences for timing, taste et al?

bread1965's picture
bread1965

Hi Everyone, Thank you for the help. After all the debate of using the cellar or the fridge, in a final pinch I decided to do neither! I checked my kitchen temp after I mixed the biga and it was at 69 in one spot on the counter and I decided to give it a chance. I had made so many breads in the kitchen I figured there must be another problem, and sure enough there was. It was the length of time I let the secondary fermentation occur last week. Thanks for all the help. Here are the details if you're interested in taking a look/read.. best to all..

https://flourwatersaltyeast.wordpress.com/2015/06/21/bread-8-redux-redemption-and-bread-leather/