May 9, 2015 - 6:29pm
Bagels, Boiling, Baked Baking Soda
I'm confused. I've read where dipping my formed bagels into baked baking soda somewhat replicates lye. Fair enough. However, in my browsing I see, "dip in baked baking soda solution, drain and rinse, and bake". What happened to the boiling?
I'm going with the "no such thing as a stupid question"
Thanks in advance.
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I think baking soda is added to the boiling water.
If you bake baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) it is transformed into washing soda (sodium carbonate), a stronger base than baking soda,but not quite as strong as lye (sodium hydroxide). Chemistry 101.
sodium bicarbonate = sodium carbonate + carbon dioxide + water
Ford
to the Baking Soda boil to more approximate the final color of lye on bagels. Just enough to get the water a strong tea color works well.
From what I have learned, right or wrong, is that lye is a dip prior to boil.
Lazybaker said, "I think", which is where I was until I read two articles that said "dip and rinse as lye".
Ford, thanks for validating my understanding of the chemistry.
Floyd - I use malt powder in the mix and the boil. I'm just not getting the sheen and crispness. Are you using a baked baking soda or plain. My first attempt using plain baking soda didn't seem to matter.
I appreciate the feedback.
I re-read your question. I missed the "baked" baking soda part. So I did some searching and came upon this blog:
http://www.thekitchn.com/expert-bagel-maker-confirms-you-dont-need-lye-to-make-a-good-bagel-maker-tour-203288
So the "baked" baking soda part which they got from Harold McGee in The New York Times that confirms this very thing. From For Old-Fashioned Flavor, Bake the Baking Soda:
Just spread a layer of soda on a foil-covered baking sheet and bake it at 250 to 300 degrees for an hour. You’ll lose about a third of the soda’s weight in water and carbon dioxide, but you gain a stronger alkali. Keep baked soda in a tightly sealed jar to prevent it from absorbing moisture from the air. And avoid touching or spilling it. It’s not lye, but it’s strong enough to irritate...
Baked soda does a much better job of approximating true lye-dipped pretzels. Just dissolve 2/3 cup (about 100 grams) in 2 cups of water, immerse the formed raw pretzels in this solution for three to four minutes, rinse off the excess dipping solution in a large bowl of plain water, and bake.
Hmm. It doesn't say that the water is boiling. It seems to be room temperature water? They're talking about pretzels dipped in the baked baking soda solution for three to four minutes and then rinsed off. For bagels, I would think that the water should be boiling?
Floyd, this is exactly the post the led me into confusion. In previous bagel attempts, I'd boil, "shake off" - not rinse, and then bake. This suggests, dip, rinse, and bake. I assumed cold water, as two cups is not enough for a boil. Then again, a soak, and rinse before boiling sort of replicates the lye process.
Also, baking the soda "concentrates it" adding it to boiling water would dilute it?
I'm going to go with the dip and rinse, then boil and bake routine - see what happens. What do I have to lose? I haven't tossed out a loaf/dough-mix since my first and last attempt at using the Kitchenaid mixer. I'm stuck with my Danish dough whisk.
thanks
...will obviously yield very different results. Lye solutions are typically used for pretzels, and the solution is not boiled. The pretzels are typically soaked for 10-15 seconds, drained on a wire rack (not rinsed), and then straight to the oven. Bagels, on the other hand, are typically boiled in water only, for 15-30 seconds, rinsed in cold water, then into the oven. I haven't seen bagels made with lye or Na(CO3)2 solutions, but maybe some people do?
For pretzels a 3% lye solution is what I use, but it's a cold dip. For bagels, in boiling water, I use a 1% solution, as the reaction is faster due to the temperature.
cheers,
gary
One more question for gary.t How long do yo boil?
Thanks again to all.
I don't time it, but it's in the range of 30–45 seconds. I drop the cold bagels into the pot, they sink, then they rise. I flip them over for long enough to see that the coloring is fairly even, and scoop them into the cold rinse water.
The process is a sort of continuous operation that is not amenable to timing the individual steps; into the boil, flip and check, scoop, rinse, dip in seeds and put on the bagel boards. You've got a few bagels at each step at any given time.
cheers,
gary