April 21, 2015 - 4:53am
Yeast Water as a replacement for Osmotolerant commercial yeast?
Reading through the immense volume of wisdom-packed forum threads on yeast waters - this site has to be best baking resource anywhere - it occurred to me that as yeast waters are cultivated with fruit, their yeast varieties are likely to be osmotolerant (that is, where the sugar content is above 5%).
If so, does that mean I can chuck away the expensive commercial osmotolerant yeasts I use in enriched doughs? Well, maybe not chuck away but, at least, replace. Yeast water pannetone anyone?
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I don't know much about yeast water nor osmotolerant commercial yeast but I must get round to YW one day.I'm wondering about it's health benefits too.
..info about long fermentation with YW and gluten intolerance, but stumbled across no published research.
However, I am very interested in YW and flavour, having been disappointed with the flavours you get using SD starters in enriched doughs. All a matter of taste, I know, but I am looking for a less acidic wild yeast culture to use.
only heard mind you, that YW gives a very "fresh" taste. Not sour at all. But I've never tasted it myself. The process is near enough the same. Inoculate some flour with yeast water and allow that to become active and then use as a starter. I also believe it tends to need warmer temperature to be as effective.
Have you tried "manipulating" your SD culture for a less sour taste. Something like a more stiff starter and a higher proportion of starter etc...
If you elaborate your starter in fashion appropriate to your goal, you should not have much trouble getting it to a point of little perceivable acidity
has a way of neutralising the "sour" for great muffins!
I just used a very ripe & sour Einkorn sourdough starter in Mike Avery's Blueberry muffin recipe. Did change things around a bit... One cup of sourdough (225g by the way in a 240g cup) Spelt flour, brown sugar, 1 tsp baking soda, vanilla and frozen raspberries (among other ingredients) Was a little worried about the sour coming through but they came out super and not sour at all! Too super! Ooo! So good!
Same goes for nut and banana bread type doughs calling for baking soda. The reaction between the acids and the soda make for fluffy muffies. :)
Soda :)
don't even have to think about "manipulating" the SD culture and amounts etc! Just add some soda. Never done this myself but I believe its very effective.
And also great idea for Einkorn Mini. Roundhaybake if you want to taste bitter then try an Einkorn Sourdough. And if Soda can neutralise that bitterness then you should be sold on this idea alone.
in your Einkorn flour is coming from. Mine is not. I would take it back if it was bitter, must be past it's prime. :(
I gotta give these muffins away before I eat them all. recipe makes 6 to 8 normal muffins but I used my tray of 6 (don't know what they're called --mini cakes or something with dents in the middle) and got 5 giant muffins. I got lots of frozen berries and fruit to use up. :) ...and nuts too!
Do you add the soda to the levain or just in the dough?
sourdough goes into oil, egg, vanilla
When the two meet stir fast and stand back! It rises while you're filling the forms! OK maybe not that fast. If you are a slow proportioner, perhaps.
For quick breads, yeast doesn't really have a chance but the sourdough has wonderful flavour, want the whole recipe? Which goes to say there is more going on in sourdough than just various acids.
I confess, that einkorn starter still had the emergency altus in it from the end of March. How that starter can still percolate for so long is absolutely amazing! (it is in the fridge.)
Einkorn always tastes bitter to me. So I think and Einkorn sourdough recipe to put the soda to the test. If that's ok.
where he puts soda in SD bread. I couldn't think why he would do that other than to reduce the amount and effects of acid in the dough. i wonder if the soda affects the keeping quality as well.
db, do you notice a correlation between reduction in salt % when soda is used?
Salt is released into the dough as part of the reaction of combining acid and soda.
put soda in SD bread recipes. Wll have to check it out. I thought salt was released into the dough when it got dissolved in the dough liquid? So ho dos soda and acid release salt into the dough? Very interesting!
That would be true if the acid was muriatic. In reality you would get a mixture of sodium lactate and sodium acetate, which are not that salty.
so there isn't much of a salty taste from the reaction. I've been dragging out eating the last muffin until this morning and I still don't detect any sour dough notes.
all the time but do not know what kind of yeast is in it - but it has no sour component at all. If you are a member of BBGA, Debra Wink did an article for Bread Lines on YW where she exposed some facts on YW in this issue
Volume 21, Issue 2, Spring 2013.
...thanks for the tip anyway. Since starting this thread, I've stumbled across a post of yours where you mentioned using YW for cinnamon rolls. That's pretty much convinced me that YW is worth experimenting with. So thanks. And thanks too for putting together the YW Primer (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/35473/yw-primer). It's excellent.
Cheers.
Many folks have used it successfully. I don't make much really enriched bread with a lot of butter and sugar except panettone and for that i use sourdough. YW does make good cinnamon rolls but mine have less sugar in them than most decadent recipes i \love but can't eat:-)
Happy YW experimenting
Hi, DA, I've been using your YW/SD combo-levain approach a lot lately with great success.Thanks! I've also wondered, as you have, exactly what's in the yeast water since it has no sour. I found your reference to Debra Wink's BBGA article in several of your posts but never seen the article posted in response. It's several years now since this thread, so I'm hoping that by now it's been posted somewhere?
I also wonder if the alleged health benefits of sourdough are also present for yeast water levains. I assume that some of those benefits spring from the bacterial action in the sourdough.
Thanks!
Hi, DA, I've been using your YW/SD combo-levain approach a lot lately with great success.Thanks! I've also wondered, as you have, exactly what's in the yeast water since it has no sour. I found your reference to Debra Wink's BBGA article in several of your posts but never seen the article posted in response. It's several years now since this thread, so I'm hoping that by now it's been posted somewhere?
I also wonder if the alleged health benefits of sourdough are also present for yeast water levains. I assume that some of those benefits spring from the bacterial action in the sourdough.
Thanks!
Hi, DA, I've been using your YW/SD combo-levain approach a lot lately with great success.Thanks! I've also wondered, as you have, exactly what's in the yeast water since it has no sour. I found your reference to Debra Wink's BBGA article in several of your posts but never seen the article posted in response. It's several years now since this thread, so I'm hoping that by now it's been posted somewhere?
I also wonder if the alleged health benefits of sourdough are also present for yeast water levains. I assume that some of those benefits spring from the bacterial action in the sourdough.
Thanks!
I have an idea I want to explore... make a 1-2-3 recipe and let it overproof overnight (or make in the morning and let it proof all day) like I forgot to retard it, then in the morning (or when coming home from a day job) add soda to the limp dough, stir, pour into the form and bake immediately in hot oven. No folding. Would it work?
After checking the results, how much fresh flour should I add, if any? (Sort of like the muffin recipe that uses discard or overripe starter.) This might make a great saving method (for sour over-fermented doughs) or a great method on its own.
Anyone interested?
Must admit I had to read that twice thinking why would you ove rproof intentionally but it finally occurred to me what you mean. And I like it mini. Very clever.
I already have a plan for this weekend which is a third attempt at Altamura Sourdough after finally understanding and finding the correct flour. But I'm very interested on the result.
Turn the dough into mush and then bake like a cake.
Basically it'll be a cake sourdough starter.
I only bake weekends as don't have time to devote to bread baking through the week. If this works Mini then the possibilities are great for me.