The Fresh Loaf

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Flour or grease to prevent sticking

Hanzosbm's picture
Hanzosbm

Flour or grease to prevent sticking

Hello all,

 

This is a somewhat general question but I wanted to generate some discussion around techniques rather than recipes.  In general, there are two methods to prevent dough from sticking during the proofing process.  One can either grease/oil the dough/container/surface, or one can use flour of some sort. 

Recently, I've been making lighter breads from primarily white flours looking for an open crumb which naturally lends itself to a higher hydration dough, but for this reason, most recipes suggest using the greased method to avoid adding more flour to the equation.  However, I've run into two problems with this.  First, I really like the look of crust that has been floured and looks a bit drier and crustier (is that a word?).  Second, and probably more infuriatingly, I've been having a heck of a time getting these breads into the oven and have ruined a few in the process.  There is nothing more aggravating than spending a week building a sourdough starter, another day creating a poolish, all day kneading and proofing, and then finally, when you're ready to put the bread into the oven, the loaf sticks to the peel and upon trying to get it off, the entire loaf falls onto the floor of your electric oven around the coils.  (and yes, that literally happened to me recently)

So, getting back to the discussion, assuming the identical recipe, how much of a difference do you think there is between flouring and greasing surfaces?  What kinds of effects do you think each will have on the finished product?  Which do you prefer and why?  And does anyone know of a way to prevent greased loaves from sticking to a peel?

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Hi,

For problems getting your dough from peel to oven baking deck, try a piece of parchment paper.  Unless you are running an oven at 600 degrees or more, the parchment outside of the dough will scorch a little but not burn.  Others use grains like cornmeal, but that, to me, is less efficient, and adds another ingredient to the product.

Batards and even boules can be proofed on a linen couche and then moved to peel.  If the couche is high quality linen, specifically for use in baking prep, then very little flour will be necessary to keep it from sticking, but you can add as much as you want, of course.

Linen lined bannetons or bowls is another way to go.  And finally, the word on the street seems to be that rice flour is a very good non-sticking agent to flour a banneton with.

BTW crustier does not trigger a word check error!  That's for me! 

jaxler12's picture
jaxler12

I agree with alfanso about using parchment to avoid dough sticking to peel. It's a simple inexpensive fix.

Couches are also a great way to proof your dough, but they do add another element of transferring that dough from couche to peel which can also cause problems (Flipping boards can be used and I'm pretty sure I've seen some videos on this site on how to properly do this). 

More often than not I use bannetons to proof my dough prior to loading into the oven. I simply place a piece of parchment onto my peel and gently flip the banneton filled with dough on top of it. One thing I do with all my new bannetons is to brush them with a cornstarch/water mixture. I combine water and cornstarch until it reaches a paste like consistency and then I just brush it all over the inside of the banneton. The paste will add a "magical" nonstick layer. On top of this layer I'll usually add rice flour to the banneton for an even more non-stick surface. At this point I rarely have sticking problems unless I'm using a very hydrated dough. Plus, the rice flour gives that floured look that many of us find aesthetically pleasing. 

To be honest I've never used grease for these purposes so can't give you too much info there. 

Good luck and I hope this helps!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Watch this video from minute 31:50 - 32:30  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYvORu_oLYc for a demonstration of moving dough from linen couche to parchment covered baking peel with a hand peel/flipping board.  Although it is demonstrating with baguette dough, the exact same technique is used for batards and, with a wider board, for boules.

 

Hanzosbm's picture
Hanzosbm

Thank you both for the advice, I really like the idea of parchment for a greased dough.  In regards to the bannetons, I actually ordered one this morning.  My intention was to use it more for rye breads, but I'm looking forward to experimenting with it.

108 breads's picture
108 breads

Thank you for the good advice. I've nothing to add, but will comment anyway.

I am addicted to parchment paper. It has probably saved many bakers from trips to emergency rooms and running off to see therapists. Parchment paper takes away the anxiety of transferring dough to an extremely hot oven, while not compromising the end result. Usually, I take the parchment paper out from underneath the baking bread from 10 to 20 minutes before the baking is done.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and not plain or decorative butter paper (which sticks like the dickens!) or wax paper (smokes in the oven.)   Parchment will stick to dough but after as little as 10 minutes of heat, it releases from the crust.  So don't use parchment if you will continue to fold or reshape the dough.  Then stick it to it for the oven.

With rye doughs and proofing, I just dribble a little water between the dough and the bowl and loosen it with a wet spatula.  I don't think there is anything that doesn't stick to rye paste.  Wet hands is the way to go if you have to touch it.

Mini

clazar123's picture
clazar123

(said in a big TV announcer's voice like the Superman intro)

 

http://www.superpeel.com/

yapahichief's picture
yapahichief

I've not been baking bread for all that long yet, just a couple of years yet, but so far my rule of thumb is it depends on what type of loaf I'm making and what texture I'm going for.  Some things to think about before using grease: First, if you are the type to grease very lightly, greasing won't really help all that much by it self (except with some overly enriched doughs that have so much oil in them already they are half stick resistant to begin with).  Second, if you are the type to grease very heavily, be prepared to make slight adjustments to technique/recipes as you get to know it and/or be ok with changes in texture. For me, I tend to be a bit heavy on the greasing (the wife is the other extreme, so I've seen both ends), which for some doughs can notably change my finished product, especially depending on the shaping.  I know a lot of the comments are about just which to use to transfer the dough to the oven, but consider the whole process.  The more oil you add to the exterior of the dough after it has been initially mixed together, the more you are creating almost a layering effect. At times I've intentionally significantly oiled the work-surface during shaping and use the folding method exclusively to make any longer skinnier shaped loaf (rather than the "snake"/rolling method).  The result is basically, to a very lesser degree obviously, a hint of layered texture to the loaf reminiscent to the layering effect of a laminated dough.  Yes, that does take over-oiling, but any bit of oil that is shaped into it to some extent or another is creating separation between two parts of the dough.  Plus, if you over oil, depending on the oil used especially, you can get a slight difference in the texture of the crust where the loaf meets the pan/stone as any excess oil that slides down the side of the loaf upon it heating up and thinning out will slightly pool there and very slightly almost create a kind of fried thin ring around the edge of the loaf where it meets the pan around its outer edge.

As far as the actual transferring of dough to the oven though, I'm a big fan of grease and even I'll say it's not enough on its own!  Get parchment paper and use the heck out of it is my thoughts on that process, thought you can still lightly flour and/or grease the parchment paper if you are still having any sticking issues or just want the aesthetic.  Just make sure either before it is finished baking or when it is done baking, you take the loaf off of the parchment and let it cool on a rack without the parchment as otherwise you can get a bit of condensation trapped between the loaf and the parchment, creating a soggier crust.

Finally, my last note for now on the matter is, for some loafs that are really high hydration (such as the recipe athttp://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2014/03/28/traveling-crusty-artisan-bread/) and won't truly hold a tall-enough shape for some needs, I've played around with baking them in our standard stove-top all metal pots so I could get round ones instead of loaf pan rectangles.  The problem was that no matter how much I tried greasing the pot I'd end up with spots I either missed or where the grease must have soaked into the loaf too much or something, because I always managed to stick a spot.  When I tried flouring them, I'd end up with missed spots that stuck and clumps of dry burnt flower in other spots that were unappealing.  Then my wife, who is more used to the cakes side of baking told me I was doing things the hard way and suggested I use one of the standard cake bakers techniques to prevent my loafs from sticking.  What you do is take and grease the whole pot bottom and sides (you can use oil or a very thin coat of solid shortening (oil is easier to get an even thin coating in my opinion). Then you dump a bit of flour in the pot and lightly tap the pot's side, turning the pot as you go to keep the flour moving around the pan.  Where there is exposed oil, a very thin layer of flour will stick, so you with both be able to see any spots you may have missed, and you get a loaf that is amazingly convenient to extract from the pan (at least as compared to my other attempts).  Maybe not the best instructions, but BHG has some steps for cake makers you could look over http://www.bhg.com/recipes/desserts/cakes/how-to-keep-cake-from-sticking-to-the-pan/.  I know a lot of things other cooks/bakers do may look odd from a bread baker's perspective, but, there's some interesting techniques out there to solve some very interesting challenges.