March 5, 2015 - 11:45am
Everlasting yeast
What's the difference between everlasting yeast and sourdough starter? Is it only the use of potatoes rather than flour to feed the yeast or is there something else? Are resultant flavors different? Thanks
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A quick google suggests there are many ways to start it, some use just wheat flour, some other forms of starch (e.g. potato) but at the end of the day I suspect the net effect is that the wild yeasts & lacto bacterias (from wheat) eventually out compete the commercial yeasts and you have a form of sourdough.
Which will last as long as you use it & feed it.
-Gordon
I never heard of * everlasting yeast * to me it suggests it is just Sourdough Starter just started with Potatoes.
I started mine with wheat flour, water and 6 cut up grapes.
Natural levain has many names.
Starter, sourdough, levain, mother, chef, natural yeast, etc. so why not everlasting yeast. It can be made from almost any form of sugar or starch-plain sugar, honey, flours, grains, potatoes, hops, peppers, fruit of any kind,cabbage (or other vegetables). Any variety can lend its own unique flavor to a loaf and all can have unique characteristics and behaviors. Use the search box to look up "fruit yeast" and you will get tons of hits. It is a living culture and needs to have food and water and survivable environs, just like people do.
Have fun and try different types for baking.
How long have you guys had your starters going? IM new to this and mine is about 2 months old now. Does it change character or texture of a loaf the older it gets?
1 year old. The changes in the first few months are more dramatic. A newly created young starter tends to make overly sour bread. But after a few months the taste improves dramatically. Overtime different feeding schedules, temperature, flour its fed... etc, can change the character of the starter and therefore the loaf too.
My wheat starter is just over 4 year old now. I was baking with it 6 days after I started it off. (flour, water, time) About 18 months ago I used 100g of it to kick-start my spelt starter and baked with that 4 days after it got going (with a daily feed of spelt then taking half out after those 4 days). My Rye starter (1.5 years with me now) came from someone who'd had theirs for 5 or 6 years and they got theirs from Shipton Mill who (I think) said that their Rye starter was about 18 years old at the time...
I don't think age has much bearing on it though. The original yeasts have long since died off and their great great great (etc). grandchildren yeasts and laco bactos are all that's left...
I do remember something did happen to my (wheat) starter about 6 months in - not sure if it was because I was baking more or used a different flour, but I remember its texture changing a little. Still made good bread. Still does. 6 loaves out this morning... What's more likely to change it IME is changing flour, changing how you store it and how you use it.
All my starters live in the fridge and they are either used directly into the flour or are bulked up beforehand when I need more than the jar can supply.
This mornings loaves were made in 2 batches - one batch got wheat starter, the other got spelt starter - both batches were wheat flour, but I didn't get back in-time yesterday to make a bulk batch of wheat starter, so used the slightly more expensive spelt in one batch. I don't think anyone can tell at the end of the day. Loaves looked fine this morning!
If spelt weren't so expensive I think I'd probably just maintain one jar of spelt starter and forget the wheat. (And I might even be tempted to just keep Rye, but the spelt lovers might object and I have a small number of people who like white wheat breads and they rye would colour it somewhat).
-Gordon
.... will be 2 years old on the 11th of May:)
* Gordon * that what my starter is called lol, is very active.
I have a small amount in the fridge, it is 100% hydration and I feed this small amount every 2 weeks, it is my backup starter, just in case.
The other one that I use every day or every other day is a 50% hydration starter * I find the taste better and it is easier to maintain in my opinion*
I only noticed changes the first month really, mainly in the smell, not in the taste.
Happy baking.
I didn't name mine - other than wheat, spelt and rye!
-Gordon
oh I just had to name mine, and Gordon was the first name that entered my head.
Good name though ;)
You can call it Flash Gordon - if it's active, or exclaim: "Gordon's alive!" if you've not used it for a long time and it still works, or for the days it doesn't work: Gordon is a moron...
-Gordon "heard them all" :)
Gordon "Bennett"
Thanks mate! Iv just baked a loaf this morning that i proofed overnight in the fridge, its amazing!
Not only the Starter but the long fermentation in the fridge will also effect the flavour of the bread. There are so many factors which will effect the final loaf. What makes sourdough so fascinating.
Enjoy!!
I know, i think im getting addicted!
And I just revived it after leaving it in the fridge for a year. I'm now making bread at least twice a week and it's beautiful.
Once you make your own, other bread just doesn't do it for you anymore.
I've had one starter (Jack) for about 5 years?? now. The other is a little younger (Grape). Jack started life as a Sourdough Jack packet that I found in its original container at a flea market-it was powdered and in a little cellophane (Real cellophane-not plastic) packet. I waited a few years to revive him because I didn't know anything about sourdough then. When I revived him, he went gangbusters and hasn't stopped since. So I don't know if he qualifies for being 45 yrs old or 5.
I believe a successful starter establishes a good balance of strong yeast and strong lactos that live well together. Over time, new neighbors and successive generations replace the original but natural selection should just strengthen the quality of the community.I believe that is why Sourdough Jack has done so well-he had a good balance that is still present and promoted his success/survival.
Have fun.
From what I've learned so far, "Everlasting Yeast" is made and also maintained in the water from boiled potatoes containing also a portion of mashed potatoes, so it wouldn't have fermenters from flour. I am wondering whether that would make the final flavor of the bread different. It apparently came from Germany/Russia. In fact, I learned of it from an older lady in the German-origin community where I now live.
I did find here on thefreshloaf this reference to a potato based starter.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/40120/odd-bread-starter-tips-and-converting-volume-weight-measurements
The flavor from the potato will be a bit different but very subtle. It definitely softens the loaf so is great for sandwich-style bread. The potato and potato water add a starchy component to add some nice custardy texture to the crumb. I am finding that most of the recipes made from Everlasting Yeast are enriched breads which usually have a dessert-ish flavor with the added fats (lard or butter) and sweeteners (honey or sugar).
Interesting article but no recipe:
http://library.ndsu.edu/grhc/articles/newspapers/news/100year_breadyeast.html
They talk about renewing their cultures once in a while from each others batches. I think the culture would also benefit from occasional booster feedings-like a sourdough culture. I'm not so sure adding commercial yeast is wise as it tends to add a monoculture of 1 specific and not necessarily long-time hardy yeast. Natural yeast cultures like Everlasting benefit from having many kinds of yeast and lactos present-they support each other.
Great sounding book but a bit expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Ewiger-Saatz-Sue-Kaseman-Balcom/dp/061578805X
Finally some recipes:
http://newsok.com/everlasting-yeast-bread-recipe-takes-time/article/2165921
From Taste of Home blog/forum:
http://community.tasteofhome.com/community_forums/f/30/p/400097/6430277.aspx#6430277
"Everlasting Yeast Starter Recipe No. 1one medium potato (peeled)
4 cups water
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. sugar
Boil potato in the unsalted water until done. Drain, but save the water. Mash potato then add sugar and salt. Cool to lukewarm, add enough potato water to make one quart of mixture. Cover and set in a warm place and let ferment. If you like, you can add a package of "boughten" yeast to speed up the process, but it will be just as good if allowed to ferment without the yeast. This recipe is about right for a large family requiring more than one loaf at a baking.
Recipe No. 2
one potato (about the size of a large hen egg)
3/4 cup potato water
2 Tbsp. sugar flour
Boil potato, drain and save potato water (unsalted). Mash potato well, and then add potato water, sugar and enough flour to make a fairly stiff batter or soft dough. Keep in a warm place until well fermented. Then put in a wide mouth jar and cover loosely--never use a tight fitting lid. In about five or six days it should be ready.Old-fashioned Light Bread from Everlasting Yeast StarterIn order to make bread from the starter first set the sponge. To do this, use the following ingredients:
Starter
1-1/2 cups potato water or sweet milk
1 Tbsp. sugar
flour
Get a large bowl and put the starter, potato water or sweet milk (heated to a little more than lukewarm), sugar and enough flour to make a stiff batter. Beat well, cover loosely and set over night in a warm place. The next morning the mixture should be nice and bubbly. If it isn't, no use going any further. You'll have a flop!
If the sponge is bubbly, take out of this mixture the starter you want to keep for the next time you make bread. Put it in a wide mouth jar and Put in refrigerator. You'll probably want a lid on it because the odor will transfer to other foods but don't put it on too tightly.False
Blessed are those that can give without remembering and take without forgetting."
Yeast lives everywhere and like people, it is adaptable to what it eats (and ferments). Every culture in the world has forms of fermentation for whatever food needed to be preserved.
I found bread recipes also by just typing "everlasting yeast" into google.
Enjoy!
I
Forgive me but . . . .
How would any yeasts survive the boiling temperatures involved here???
The new yeasts don't come from the boiled potato and water. They come from the environment.
As I said, yeast will not survive in a boiling water environment so that whole part of the process is somewhat of a red herring. What it creates is a mix of water with sugar in it and starches. Things yeasts will feed on. However waiting for yeasts to naturally float their way into the mix is hugely inefficient.
To create a starter or a yeast water you simply need a source of wild yeasts and some water. Yeast waters are made from certain fruits and vegetables, simply by covering them in water and leaving them to ferment. The yeasts don't come from the environment, they are already present on the skins of the fruits and vegetables in large quantities. Cover a handful of raisins in water (or your potato water) and in about 2 days you will see bubbles, evidence of fermentation. You can have a viable yeast water in just a few days this way, no need to be waiting for yeasts floating in the air or on spoons etc, and to be honest, no need to be boiling spuds. Just fruits and water are all that is needed. Pure and simple. By all means use spud water for a uniquely flavoured yeast water, just as you can use different fruits for different flavours, but let's be mindful that special water is not required to make a yeast water.
Similarly, starters are made from flour and water and again, the wild yeasts do not come from the environment (in any significant quantity), they are already present in the flour because they were already present in and on the grain when it was milled. Mix flour with water (or your potato water) and in a few days you will have a viable sourdough starter.
Really this entire process is very simple and need not be made complicated. Flour + water + right temperature and a little time is all that is needed.
On the issue of "everlasting yeast" and the article that another poster linked to, well, for me it's just another of a plethora of somewhat disingenuous articles that claim wild yeast starters being 100s of years old.
Yeasts do not last 100s of years. They have a short life span. The well known yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae replicates about every 100 minutes and does so on average for just 26 replications and then expires. Each yeast therefore expires after about 43 hours. Claiming starters are a 100 years old is disingenuous at best and, in terms of sites who sell it as such, totally false marketing. All that can be stated is that a yeast mix or starter has been perpetually maintained for 100 years but in itself that means absolutely nothing. The starter that has been maintained 100 years is no different to the starter that has been maintained 100 days. All the yeasts in both mixes are young recently replicated yeasts.
If I seem a little blunt about all this it's because this stuff keeps cropping up time and time again here and it just isn't helpful, esp to newbies wanting to create good strong starters to make sourdoughs. There is no need to complicate or embellish what is an extremely simple and swift process . . . imho.
Thank you clazar123. It's good help and good information. I intend to try this.
I think Il call mine alan
Potatoes and other root vegetables can come with some very nasty other micro-critters that have to be killed by boiling before the potatoes can be used for fermentation. Yeast is ubiquitous.
Of course, one has to boil the potatoes and used the boiled potato water. The environment of the kitchen, i.e., the air, the dishes, the spoons, etc., are the kitchen environment. I did not mean soil or other dirt. There are enough wild yeast in the air and equipment to begin the process.
It's good to be aware that soil or dirt might be hazardous.