The Fresh Loaf

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No Oven Spring and Pronounced Sour Taste

Sourdough Explorer's picture
Sourdough Explorer

No Oven Spring and Pronounced Sour Taste

First of all I don't really mind the sour taste, in fact I like it. However, on my last attempt the flavor was not well rounded. Also as my title states there was zero oven spring on my last 3 attempts. I will say that I am using what I believe to be a lively starter. I refridgerate mine and remove a teaspoon on thurs morning and feed with a 1/4 cup of warm water and 1/2 of KA AP. By fri morning I am doubling the size of the feedings (which occur every 12 hours) and the starter is at least doubling between feedings. my recipe is from Sourdough Home, it is as follows:

1/4 cup starter
5 1/2 cups (687.5g) KA Bread Flour
1 cup (125g) KA Whole Wheat Flour
2 1/2 cups water
2 tsp salt

I begin by stirring the starter into the water. I add the WW flour and mix. Then I add the Bread Flour and mix with a wood spoon until combined. I set aside the mixture, before adding the salt, covered, for 2 hours to autolyse.

I then add salt and mix with a Kitchen Aid for 5 minutes until dough is mostly pulling away from the sides of the bowl but still sticking to the bottom.

I then remove the very sticky dough and place in food grade vertical container with lid slightly ajar and leave on counter to bulk ferment at 68-71 degrees F for 12 hours. I have been making the dough at 8:00 on Saturday night and coming back to it on sunday morning at 8:00.

When I come back to the dough it has more than doubled and possibly started to recede a bit.

I pour the slack dough onto a floured counter and separate and weigh. Dividing into two boules. I shape and place in (bent whicker?) benatons. First I coat the benatons with a lot of Semolina flour to try and prevent sticking.

I let the dough rise, covered, in the benatons for 4-5 hours until they have roughly doubled.

In the meantime I preheat the oven to 375, with quarry tiles in place, for 1 hour. I bring a pot of water to boil on the stove and pour into a pan that I place on a lower rack.

I invert the benatons onto a wood peel, also well dusted with Semolina and quickly slash with a razor blade then spritz with water (Already I am noticing that the boules look like UFOs). Moving deliberately through each of these last steps I then slide the dough onto the hot quarry stones and quickly close the door.

I turn on the oven light and watch as nothing happens for 45 minutes when I finally remove the boules, which have not "bloomed" at all. The crust is light brown and crisp for a few hours and the crumb is decent, not completely open but not super dense either.

I just purchased a Sassafras Cloche and intend to use that going forward.

Thanks for any input you folks might have for me,

Scott

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

65g      starter
687.5g bread flour
125g    whole Wheat Flour
590g    water
11g      salt

Total flour = 845g, Total water = 622.5g, Salt = 1.3%, Hydration = 73.6%, Levain = 7.7%

  • Well first of all I'd increase you salt amount to 13g - 16g

You also autolyse for 2 hours with the levain and without the salt before you even start.

Autolyse is 30min without salt or levain. The purpose of the salt in the bread is to control the yeast amongst other things. Purpose of autolyse is to strengthen the gluten before you add the salt or levain. Autolysing for 2 hours with levain and without salt will throw everything off balance. Not only has the starter had a two hour uncontrolled head start but you then bulk ferment for 12 hours. Gluten breakdown could very well happen and prevent oven spring.

This recipe needs a real rethink.

 

 

Sourdough Explorer's picture
Sourdough Explorer

Hi AbeNW11,

Thank you very much for your suggestions and observations. When you say the recipe needs a rethink do you mean the method? or the actual recipe excluding the change in salt volume?

Thanks again,
Scott

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Check your private messages for a recipe idea. Or below for this one reworked.

Ford's picture
Ford

Your dough is about 73% hydration.  I think this is too slack a dough, I would aim for about 65% hydration.  You are using  less starter, than I do, but as you say you don't mind the sour flavor.  Perhaps a longer time for the "autolyse" will build up the yeast and the rising.  I find the oven temperature a little low, I would start at 450°F and reduce it to 350°F after 15 minutes and remove the water.  Check the doneness with an instant-reading thermometer -- 195 to 200°F is done.  
That is my opinion.

Ford

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

Taking Ford's recommendations into account:

Baker's Percentages

Flour : 100%

Hydration : 65%

Salt : 2%

Starter : 10%

 

Now keeping with the correct sized loaf you wish to bake.

 

RECIPE:

Flour: 845g

Water: 535g

Salt: 16g

Starter: 84g

 

Method:

 

1. Autolyse the 845g flour + 535g water for 30min.

2. Sprinkle 16g salt on top, add starter over the salt and combine till dough is formed.

3. Knead dough (or use a mixer) till moderate gluten formation (10-15min)

4. Bulk Ferment for 4-6 hours (depending on how sour you want it) giving a stretch and fold every half hour.

5. Lightly dust worktop with flour and tip dough out.

6. Shape into boule or batard then leave to bench rest for 20min

7. Do second shaping and place into proofing basket.

8. Final roof till ready or leave out for 20min and retard overnight in the fridge.

9. Bake at temperature recommended by Ford in a pre-heated oven (or if retarding bake next morning from the fridge).

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and the proofing are all too long.  The dough should not be falling down on it's own while bulking.  

"...dough it has more than doubled and possibly started to recede a bit."

Spreading out yes, but not loosing gas unless you are poking or folding it.  Waiting for the final proof to double is also too long, go for about 80% proofed.  Let the oven do the rest.  Otherwise the dough is just worn out from all the fermenting.  :)

Sourdough Explorer's picture
Sourdough Explorer

Thank you all for your input thus far, your suggestions confirm some suspicions I had and the recipe suggestions are always quite welcome. I'm new around here and very impressed with the timely thoughtful responses.

Scott

arlo's picture
arlo

I feel the yeast metabolism is being effected by the strenuously long bulk fermentation stage. Much like MiniO suggested, try cutting back on the proofing stages, or if you are concerned about fitting into your schedule -overnight the dough in bulk by placing in your fridge.

 

jcope's picture
jcope

At 68 to 70 degrees, I wouldn't expect good results with bulk fermentation longer than 4.5 to 5 hours.  If you want to ferment for 12 hours, I'd try a temperature in the mid-50s.  That's my amateur opinion, based on some science.