European flour
After coming back home from Germany I always suffer withdrawal of the wonderful brotchen and bread... I can't get a decent roll or bread anywhere and certainly nothing that vaguely resembles or tastes like what the German bakeries produce. The other thing I find interesting is I eat the breads/cakes/pastries there with no ill effects, here I am fatigued, suffer head aches, joint pain and bloating anytime I eat breads or gluten. I have resorted to baking my own bread but still cannot reproduce anything close to the european breads/rolls. Having done some research I know our flour is completely different. Also, I believe that Germany is non GMO wheat and uses far less pesticides than we do. So my question, where can I buy German flour ? Have done some searches and a NYBakers offered european style flour but not sure if it is the real thing ? How do you artisan bread bakers produce a European bread or roll with the flour here? I find it just doesn't work..everything is too dense and soft. .I would love to be able to bake a real German Brötchen, light and airy with crispy crust! Any advice would be appreciated.
There is no such thing as commercially grown GMO wheat. You are not likely to find German flour
... However if you do think it's gluten then please get tested for coeliac disease. Gluten is currently getting somewhat of a bad press when for the most part it's probably more of a wheat intolerance rather than gluten. Try some rye bread for example - but make sure it doesn't have any wheat flour in it. You ought to be able to get sourdough rye fairly easy in (I'm guessing) the US.
see e.g. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/03/grain
I've not had the bread you mention, but online recipes seems to be mostly the same - e.g. http://www.instructables.com/id/Brotchen-Crusty-German-style-Rolls/
I guess you can make some ice cream with all the extra egg yolks!
And while commercial wheat isn't GM, it may well be treated with pesticides, fertilisers, and who knows what else. See if you can buy some organic stone ground flour to start with, or search for a small bakery that makes sourdough breads other than Rye...
-Gordon
But good motivation to get into baking your own bread. Water? Ambient surroundings?
Now which is it, too dense or too soft? Dense and soft?
The rolls? ...Vienna dough, I think.
have changed just as bakeries have changed in the States. I spent a month in 2013 with German friends . My host knew of one bakery, a 30 minute drive from her home, in which the breads sold are actually made on site. There were some beautiful, varied breads offered, and we were the only customers at that moment. I left with some lovely rye breads, hoping that the shop sees its share of busy times.
Each morning I would hike down to their local bakery a few blocks from their in-town home. There was always a line waiting for the rolls which were indeed coming hot out of the oven. However, one day I managed to look into the prep area, and there was a "baker" lining up frozen pre-made rolls on baking sheets to de-frost, rise and bake. My host pointed out the bread manufacturer in town where all the "set-up" breads are made. It is all about progress. : P
Having spent the better part of my life in the Netherlands and Germany I promise you can make good bread in the States if you know how. First you need a little know how. A recipe to get you started here. . .
http://hanseata.blogspot.com/2010/06/weizenbroetchen-german-rolls.html
see if you can find "Caputo 00 flour in 1kg size in the blue bag". It is possible to get here in Italian markets. (This is not the pizza blue bag flour which only comes in 25kg. Also not the Chef's flour in the small red bag. I haven't used the more available Caputo Chef's 00 for rolls like this but maybe it has too much gluten for this purpose? YMMV)
If you can get a mill you can grind your own Spelt and Rye. Bluebird grain farms in Washington (not DC) has nice Rye berries for you to grind. It will taste as good as German rye flour and you can make it fresh. Learn about Detmold. Buy a good book. I always recommend Bread by Mr. Hamelman. No nonsense book which is good because you are a no nonsense person who wants decent bread, Ja? Of course.
Make a rye sourdough starter like here for your good breads that you enjoyed in Germany
http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/rye-sourdough-starter-in-easy-steps/
If you really liked these breads you can make them it is all possible. I have tasted breads here that are as good or even better. I used to romanticize the breads too but then I go back every summer and I realized it must have been the good beer and wine coloring my taste buds. :-)
some German bread recipes in German and English to get you started.
http://berndsbakery.blogspot.com
Recipes are the same in English but they taste better in german for some reason. ;-)
You posted some great links. Danke.
One thing I would note about some German breads is the drying and grinding of left over bread and adding this to the current bread. A great use for "bread crumbs".
schmied (blacksmith - english)
Like RSF who started this thread, I still suffer withdrawal pains from German breads...and I lived there 20 years ago! In that respect, I feel so sorry for the Germans living in our country! I have yet to bake or taste anything close to what I enjoyed there (France and Italy, too), so I've come to suspect U.S. flour as the culprit. I also have the same unpleasant symptoms as RSF.
Two key issues with U.S. flour: 1) bleaching actually increases the strength of the gluten 2) U.S. super-hybridized strains (not GMO) have given unusual strength to the gluten protein. Those combined factors spell GI trouble and headaches for many eating U.S. baked goods.
Non-hybridized, unbleached flours do not cause symptoms, according to many. I have yet to locate flour made from classic strains of wheat, but it's high on my agenda. Better yet, I would love to find a U.S. source for European flours other than Type 405 (aka Type 45, 00, pastry flour) and avoid U.S. flours altogether.
I am German and live in the UK.
I could never find a decend tasting bread or roll over here in the UK, so I started baking my own bread.
The flour here is good and my prefered bread is Sourdough bread.
Nothing else comes close to tickle the tastebuds like a cood crusty sourdough bread * not to sour, just a hint of sour in the background so to speak * fresh unsalted butter... anything tastes good on Sourdough bread.
Try my hand on making some crusty white rolls over the weekend.
Amazon would be a good bet. Alibaba works too. Seriously I dunno why people are always complaining that you can't get good flour in the US. If you want to see some really terrible shit, come to china. Even here though, I can get some good french flour (german flour is available too, but much more expensive for some reason). They are usually only available in 25kg packages though.
nybakers.com (actually located in San Diego, CA) sells an imported Italian flour, but their other European style flours are made of domestic flours, blended to act and taste like various European flours, according to their website. The company is great to work with, and provides good products - I have bought from them in the past, and likely will do so again when I try working with rye flour again.
brad