Multigrain rye sourdough problems
I have been making a dark rye sourdough from a recipe in “Crust.” It calls for 300g white flour, 500g dark rye flour, 400g sponge, 20g salt, and about 530g water. My starter is 50-50 flour/water by weight. The recipe on p 59 of the book by Bertinet calls for 600g of water but I find this dough is way too wet. After working the dough for 10 min I add a cup of mixed, toasted seeds.
I knead the dough 10 min, add the seeds, let it rest an hour, fold it, rest another hour, then divide it an let it rise in a cool place (60 deg or so) overnight.
Here are my problems: a) Even by cutting the water to 530g I wind up with a wet, sticky, mess of chewing gum. Working this dough even using slap and fold is a nightmare. It sticks to my scraper, my hands, the counter, everything. b) In addition, I am not getting a lot of rise in the final crust.
Should I cut the water even more to get a workable dough to knead? Should I expect the sourdough rye recipe to yield less rise in the crust?
What Bertinet suggests but with such a heavy rye I would skip the slap n fold technique and use a different method for mixing like pinching and folding and following up with a fold or two during the bulk. Rye doesn't develop gluten like wheat flour and is known for being very sticky due to the pentosans, I believe. I'd just do some pinching and folding (the method in FSWY) until you get a dough with moderate development. then follow suit but if it seems like it needs it,maybe add 2 folds. He may use more water in his formula because he's using a firmer levain??? This is a 50% Rye and I think it would help a great deal if 20% of it was the flour in the pre-ferment. You can build a rye sour off of your white levain if you don't already have a rye sour.
Hope that helps a bit
Josh
sounds dangerous with that much rye flour. Might try colder. Try working with wet hands to handle. Let the faucet run just a little or fill bowl with which to dip your fingertips. "wet sticky mess of chewing gum" sounds over-proofed.
300 + 500 + 200 = 1000g flour 530 + 200 = 730g H2O 73% hydration, book 80% hydration 80% sounds good. Sort of like kneading a mud pie. I tend to be around 83% hydration with my ryes containing over 60% rye flour. I tend to knead it in the air above the bowl and alternate hands wetting when they start to stick. The more rye flour the stickier it gets and the less kneading is needed too.
There is a difference if using AP flour or Bread flour. Sourdough overnight retard and Rye would have me using the Bread flour and immediately retarding perhaps on ice. Starter to flour ratio is 1: 2 and will proof rather fast if your dough has at least 75°F or 23°C starting temperature. That would translate into cutting, shaping and baking sooner, much sooner. Try this:
I knead the dough 10 min, add the seeds, let it rest an hour, fold it,
rest another hour,then divide,shape it, an let it rise in a cool place (60 deg or so)overnightuntil risen 2/3 , not double. Then bake it in a hot oven.Does the original recipe ask for a cool overnight rise?