The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

She's not the prettiest girl at the dance, but...

paul0130's picture
paul0130

She's not the prettiest girl at the dance, but...

It was absolutely delicious. My best loaf! But the whole underside exploded so I'm hoping someone here can tell me where I'm going wrong. I'm pretty sure it's the way I'm shaping the boules. First off, this is the first time I put the sponge in the fridge. The fridge is about 38 degrees, and it was in there for about 18 hours. 1 cup starter, 1 1/2 cups water, and 3 cups flour. When I took it out, I mixed in a cup of flour and 2 1/2 tsp pink salt (took a while to dissolve). This was the smoothest and silkiest dough I've ever worked with. It was really easy to knead and get a good window pane. Then I let it rest for 2 hours. I think this is the point where I went wrong.

When I shape the boules I just slide the dough out of the oiled bowl, cut it in half with my dough cutter, flatten a little but not all the way and make a rectangle, fold all side into itself, pinch the seems, flip it over, and then proceed to pull and turn until I get a really tight surface on top. While the surface is really tight, I feel like the bottom is not very well put together if that makes sense.

Then I let that sit 2 hours, slash the loaves, and put it in the over at 450 for 20 minutes. Open the oven, turn it off, and let sit 5 more minutes. This seems like a pretty basic recipe, but it's the one I have had the most luck with. I don't usually refrigerate though. I normally let the sponge sit on the counter 2 to 8 hours depending.

Anyway, please take a look at the pics and if you can let me know where I'm going wrong it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

timbit1985's picture
timbit1985

oh dear, that sounds like the start of a terrible joke. Seriously though, your problems are probably two fold. Insufficient tension and sealing during shaping. Really make sure you seal your seams shut during shaping, And watch your slashes. Try making a tic-tac-toe shape on boules, keeping the blade at 90 degrees to the loaf, and only going about 6mm (1/4 in) deep. 

Another thing to try, is  bake seam side up, and slash perpendicular to the seam. You end up with some very interesting organic (i hate that word) looking loaves. I believe this is known as forkish shaping, or maybe tartine? I'm not sure, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 

mc_janine's picture
mc_janine

Teresa at Northwest Sourdough has a great video about shaping that might help. www.youtube.com/watch?v=45z18TtFijU

 

nmygarden's picture
nmygarden

It does appear you have some minor shaping issues, but the blowouts may be more easily addressed. You didn't mention using steam with the bake. It looks as though you had beautiful tension over the tops of your boules :), and that your slashes began to expand in the heat of the oven, but were unable to continue as the crust hardened. The internal pressure then found the weakest point... and took full advantage of it.

Using steam for the early stage of baking will help keep the crust pliable enough to allow for a more 'intended' expansion (oven spring).

I bet they tasted great, regardless!

Cathy

 

Laurentius's picture
Laurentius

Is this sourdough? I`ve never baked a loaf less than 40minutes! The middle and bottom seem doughy to me, maybe you sliced it too early? While fermenting for the last 2hrs, was it in a bowl or bannenton to maintain a shape? Sorry, I have more questions and no answers.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

From the photos my best guess is a combination of too much bench flour and not enough proofing.

Gerhard

varda's picture
varda

Hi.   I'm guessing you have a convection oven and that the wind dried out the surface before the loaf could expand through the scores.   Then since it needed to expand somewhere, it burst elsewhere.    If no convection than not enough steam will do the same thing.  

paul0130's picture
paul0130

You guys are probably spot on with the steam. Sounds logical. No, I didn't use any steam. Should I put a pan of water at the bottom of the oven, or use a spray bottle with some water? I'm a beginner at all this if you can't tell :) The recipe I used says 20 minutes at 450, then turn off oven, crack the oven door and let sit 5 more minutes. But yes it was a tad doughy. I chalked that off to the fact that the bread couldn't expand which I now know was probably the lack of steam. I think I also have a tendency to use too much bench flour as I usually add more flour if sticky, then notice it is not sticky at all. I suppose it should be a little sticky right? Also... I watched the video and I suppose I should invest in a bannenton because I think that also would have helped. I feel like I am on the cusp of making some great sourdough!! So what about the 18 hours in the fridge? Was it just coincidence that dough was so nice? I forgot to mention I also switched to KAF bread flour instead of my usual Pillsbury. Thanks all! Oh BTW, seam side up also sounds like a pretty good idea.

leucadian's picture
leucadian

Looking at the crumb shot, it looks like the bottom did not bake at the same rate as the top. I think your shaping was great except for capturing some air pockets when you closed up the dough, causing those big holes (maybe some excess bench flour contributed to this). The surface tension is excellent, with even color all over the top, although I'd go for a longer bake and deeper crust. 

Look at the bottom crust and crumb: no color on the crust, and dense crumb. The bottom crust was soft throughout the bake, so that's where the expansion came (big time). It looks like you got very little heat on the bottom, either from being too close to the top element, or the bottom element not being hot enough. If you could have directed the expansion that occurred on the bottom to the slashes you made on the top, it would have been a very pretty loaf. That indicates that the proofing was good, neither under nor over proofed. If moving the oven rack doesn't work, try some aluminum foil on the top to prevent the top of the loaf from browning before the bottom is set. Baking under a bowl might have the same effect, while providing a moist baking environment. Pyrex, stainless steel, just about anything will work if it sits flat on the baking sheet.  Remove the bowl or foil after the expansion is complete.

I routinely steam my bread, but I think the main effect is to improve the crust, making it glossy, not to keep the slashes open. That is done by protecting the newly exposed dough from the heat. You see the same kind of effect as you got when the dough is over proofed, and has no oven spring. But your loaves have plenty of oven spring, so that's not the problem. You might make sure that your cuts are not perpendicular to the surface; you want to encourage an overhang to form, protecting each bit of dough as it opens up. 

Good luck, and keep experimenting with retarding in the refrigerator. 

 

paul0130's picture
paul0130

Thanks for the very informative reply leucadian! My cuts are exactly perpendicular to the surface. Part of the problem I suppose. The frustrating part going back and looking at pictures of my first loaves a few months ago, they didn't have this problem and an up close look at the pics reveals a more diagonal cut. How did I forget this? At the same time, I don't think those loaves had the same oven spring because I was having kneading issues at the time :) . Today's plan is to lower to next rack. I think I will put my pizza stone at the bottom of the oven too to add a little extra heat from bottom of oven. Diagonal slashes, and perhaps more of them. Someone else mentioned the tic tac toe pattern so maybe I'll try that on one, and just diagonal cuts on the other. All that said, the sponge has been sitting on the counter for 3 hours now and does not smell great. Don't think I gave the starter enough time after pulling it from the fridge. Sheesh!! Maybe I should stick to the grill :)

mc_janine's picture
mc_janine

I don't have a bannetone, but I have the perfect sized round bowl. I do an initial fold and form like in the video, then use the bowl. True, I don't get the ridges an unclothed basket would give me (maybe someday one of my potter friends will make me a coil bowl), but if I lightly oil and toss some cornmeal into the bowl and let it do it's second rise in it, I just turn it over on to a dusted (cornmeal again) pizza peel, give it a couple of quick slashes and slide it onto the pre-heated (400) stone for 35 min.. I use the heated metal pan on the lower rack method to pour some water (steam) into the first few minutes of the rise. It might not be the professional way to do it, but hey-it works for me. It keeps the shape reasonably well for a round loaf. Still not the prettiest, but she does get the odd dance or two. Cheers. Happy New Year!