December 21, 2014 - 12:50pm
Going from 200g to 250g of starter
Hello,
I'm new to the world of sourdough baking so sorry if this is too basic a question:
I'm currently working on getting 200g of sourdough starter ready to use. Once it's ready I'd like to use a recipe that calls for 250 g of starter. I'm not planning on maintaining a "mother" for now (I'll use all of my starter for the dough). Would it be ok to just add an extra 25 g of water and flour (so 75g water/flour total) during the last feed before baking to get it up to 250g?
Thanks
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Hard to say without knowing a little more. Do you know the hydration level of your starter? i.e. the percentage of liquid in relation to the weight of the flour. Example: a starter composed of 100 grams flour and 125 grams of water is said to have 125% hydration. Also what hydration rate is called for in the starter for the recipe you want to try?
These bits of info are important because you may have to convert not only in terms going from 200 to 250 grams, but also to correct the hydration level of your starter for the recipe. Don't worry, it's not hard. Just takes a little math and thinking it through.
I've been checking back to see if you were able to supply the hydration levels. Then I could have described an approach recommended by Jeffrey Hamelman (author of Bread). No worries. Assuming that both starters, yours and the one the recipe asks you to create, are 125% hydration, you need to add 22 grams flour and 28 grams water. I would try this only if your starter is super vigorous and healthy, fed daily, and never kept in the fridge. Even then, I'd know I was taking a chance and would probably want to throw in a pinch or two of commercial yeast.
A better approach would be to take a small proportion of your starter and do two feedings several hours apart, for example morning and night, then mix your bread the following morning. Here's the process starting with 50 grams of the original 200 grams of starter (discard the remaining 150 grams). Add 45 grams flour and 55 grams water for the first feeding; cover and let ripen at room temp. JH says it can take 6 to 14 hours. Look for wispy bubbles and a pleasant aroma. Then add another 45 grams flour and 55 grams water. Cover again and let ripen. What you end up should be 250 grams of happy, healthy starter depending on the vigour of the original. Again, I've assumed 125% hydration level.
Abe's answer is a good one, too, and much like my baking instructor's quick'n'easy approach developed from years as owner/operator of a successful bakery. We had 15 lb. of starter in a pail kept covered at room temp. He told us to take out 10 lb. for the day's sourdough bread and add 5 lb. each of water and flour back to the 5 lb. left in the pail. In short, the 1:1 ratio for both flour and water. Next day, same thing. That's what kept it vigorous: daily withdrawals and daily deposits to borrow terms from banking. Fair enough, if you don't have the time or whatever. But think about keeping a starter. It repays you many times over for a little time and attention.
Happy baking and eating! Cheers.
As a rule when feeding a starter to use in a recipe the amount of starter used in the pre-ferment should be at least equalled by the flour it is fed. i.e.
If I need 150g of levain then i'd do the following:
50g starter fed with 50g flour + 50g water = 150g active levain.
I'd never feed the 50g of starter with less than 50g of flour. The water is different. You can either have a 100% hydration levain, higher or lower in which case you'd adjust the water. But flour ratio to starter would be 1:1.
I don't know why you don't wish to maintain a starter but follow the above rule even if a little discard is necessary.
Normally i'd be against discard and would advise on good ways to maintain your starter and build pre-ferments but because you don't wish to keep a starter anyhow then no problem.
But flour ratio to starter would be 1:1.
Should read AT LEAST 1:1.
That means if I have 50g starter then i'd feed it at least 50g flour or more. Not less.
My starter is at 100% hydration (1:1 ratio of water to flour). As far as I can tell that's also what the recipe calls for. So the best thing to do would be to take 30 g of starter, add to it 30 g of flour and water ( = 90g) and then feed it another 90 g of flour and water (=270g) and discard the 20 g I don't need? That way the starter is never fed less flour than its current weight.
Take off 80g of your starter and prepare a pre-ferment by feeding it...
85g of flour + 85g water
That would be a good simple build.
That would be a simple one step build.
A one step build or more?
You can do a two step...
1: feed 20g of your starter with 30g flour + 30g water. This will give you an active 80g at 100% hydration.
2: feed this 80g (after its become active I.e. Fed and bubbled up) with 85g flour + 85g water. This will take much quicker and now you'll have a twice fed highly active healthy 250g levain.
I'm not sure. Does it make a big difference?
One build will make a nice loaf. I was just guessing what you wanted so gave you two options. As long as you feed it 1:1 or higher it will be fine. That's generally what I do.
If you have a nice strong starter then a single build is enough.
If your starter is a bit sluggish it might benefit from two builds to make the levain stronger.
I smiled and always remembered Hamelman's response this question on one feeding versus two or more:
"...we can do that [one feeding]. It's asking a lot, however, for the microorganisms in our bowl to take in all that food and water at one sitting. After all, we humans could survive if we ate breakfast, lunch and dinner all at once and nothing else until the next day, but we probably wouldn't feel too good on that sort of eating regimen - and neither would our culture if we bombarded it with such a hefty meal."
Hi Chell, thanks for getting back to me about your hydration levels. Now I can give you the straight goods. There's no rule about always having to give sourdough starter its current weight in flour. Sometimes it works out that way, but it's not a rule. Here's the process for figuring out how to get EXACTLY the amount of starter you need, at the right hydration level, given that you don't wish to maintain your starter ongoing.
Let's assume 50 grams of your original starter and discard the rest. The process is called elaboration, and you can apply it to whatever amount you want to use and still maintain 100% hydration. However little or much you use, being at 100% hydration means that it is comprised of 200 units: 100 of flour and 100 of water. I'll do this in two builds since that's recommended. The first will bring the starter to half of what you need for the recipe. In other words, you have 50g; you want 125 or half of the desired final weight. In this first build, you need to add 75 grams (125 minus 50).
The answer's obvious at 100% hydration. You just divide that by 2 to get the amount of flour and water to add: 37.5 grams of each. Of course, 38 and 37 grams are just fine to make up the amount. End result: 125 grams of starter. At other hydrations, it's good to know another bit of math. If the hydration level were 125%, for example, your starter would have 225 units instead of 200 because flour is always 100% and the water is 125 in this case. Divide 75 by 225 and your conversion factor is 0.3333. That is, each unit will weigh 0.3333 grams. Multiply that factor by 100 for the flour (add 33 grams) and by 125 for the water (add 42 grams). You still end up with 75 grams added to the original 50 but at the 125% hydration level.
But back to your 100% hydration starter and the second build a few hours later. You now have 125g nice ripe starter and you want 250. You need 125 (250 minus 125), so you add 62.5 grams each of flour and water. Cover, allow to ripen, and then make your bread.
If I've been unclear in any way, I apologize and refer you to pages 148-9 of Jeffrey Hamelman's 2nd edition of Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes. If you can only get your hands on the first edition, look for the description of starter elaboration in the notes at the beginning of the chapter on levain breads. You'll be reassured perhaps that as masterful a baker as JH thinks it's perfectly fine to do it this way which, at times, means you add less flour than the current weight of your ripe starter.
All good wishes. apprentice