December 15, 2014 - 3:03pm
New baker help
Hi I recently started baking and whilst I've been enjoying largely good results (I've only had to chuck one loaf so far!), I feel my simple white loaf is a bit on the dense side. I knead by hand so I could simply be under doing it but I'm not so sure. I always check the dough is ready with the windowpane test and it looks OK, perhaps a little patchy, but I will get a definite window and no tears. What else could be the problem if not the kneading?
I could upload a picture of my latest loaf's crumb if that will help at all?
The recipe I use is
500g strong white flour
325g water
7g quick yeast
10g salt
I bake this for 25 minutes at 210C.
Thanks,
nobby
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The First thing that pops out to me is your rather low hydration. 65% is pretty low to get that big open crumb. Also some more info on yer time and temps could be helpful. How long to you bulk ferment/proof, does your house have heat ect.
might be making your loaf heavy, try using at least half AP for a lighter loaf. More info on the rise results, inc. time and temp would help.
...with good results and an open crumb. It seems that the important part of the procedure if to be gentle with the dough after the bulk fermentation stage - so my advice would be to do all your stretch & folds during the bulk fermentation stage and then carefully divide and shape for the final proof. Don't knock it back after bulk fermentation.
and longer bulk fermentation will give you better rise. Now i'm not sure with quick instant yeast but I get very good results by using 1g of Fresh Yeast and bulk fermenting for 8 - 10 hours (do your stretch & folds every 10-15min for 1hr then allow time to do the rest).
Then knock back, shape & final proof.
Bake.
This type of recipe works well for overnight.
... "back of the packet" type bread recipe. These do work well and are a good introduction to bread making.
Check your rise times - You'll want to rise it the first time for about an hour in a warm, draft-free place (covered) until it doubles in size - although doubling is a good guide, don't rely on it - and you probably don't want to leave it more than 1.5 hours at this point. Tip it out, shape it into a log that will fit into a tin (non-stick, lightly oiled), then let it rise again for about an hour - or until its doubled in size, (check at 45 then 5 minute intervals - again, don't let this go on much longer than an hour) then into a (pre-heated) hot oven - crank it up to 11 (250C) for 12 minutes then down to 200C for another 20-25. Be brave, even if the crust looks darker then you're used to (especially compared to beige shop-bought bread)
If just starting out, don't worry about hydration, slashing, flour blends, etc. just develop a good kneading technique (or use a stand mixer!) and look at the first and 2nd rises. Also try to do the knead without adding any more flour to the work surface. There are a million methods though, you just need to find something that works for you.
If you're in the UK (which I'm guessing from your name and nice metric units) then look online for some of Paul Hollywood, Hobbs House or Richard Bertiniet videos on basic breads. There's loads of great stuff online to get you going, but no substitute for getting your hands covered in flour!
-Gordon
Hi thank you for all the responses. My normal process is very basic: mix the ingredients, knead for 10 minutes, rise for 1 hour, knock back, shape, proof for 1 hour, and bake.
I am interested in this stretch and fold method though. I understand this replaces the kneading stage, and instead I simply stretch and fold the dough periodically during the first rise? Would this method work better with a higher hydration dough than I'm currently using (65%)? What hydration should I aim for?
Thanks,
nobby
Time plus stretch and folds (or kneading).
There are many no knead recipes out there that just rely on time.
Stretch and folds, or kneading, helps develop the gluten when shorter bulk fermentation is used.
And then there are recipes that use both.
High hydration benefits wholegrain as the fibre drinks up more liquid. As a general rule higher hydration will give more of an open crumb. But then you have to also take into account different flours which have different gluten in them.
Stretch and folds are a good technique to develop gluten in high hydration doughs where handling them becomes more difficult. Less invasive and yet effective.
One of my favourite methods is to keep the dough in the mixing bowl, wet your fingers and pinch the far side of the dough gently pulling up and over towards you then press down in the middle. Rotate the bowl a but and repeat till you've gone round the dough and it begins to resist. Then rest and repeat every 10 to 15 min for an hour or if you're doing long bulk fermentation then you can choose to spread it out to every 30 min to 1hr.