December 12, 2014 - 7:11am
Can I collect local San Fran yeast when I visit?
Will I get a unique tasting bread from the local yeast I collect when I travel? I can order SD cultures that the seller purports to be from a certain location in the world (Egyptian,Greek, Alaska, etc) and that they are each unique. Is this true? So when I travel to San Francisco next week can I just start a starter in my hotel room and collect SF yeast that will give me a SF sourdough loaf?
Will it stay unique?
This hasn't been discussed in a while.
Here is a link to the cultures from around the world:
http://www.sourdo.com/our-sourdough-cultures-2/
If you buy the flour in SF and use the water from SF to start a culture in SF, you will have a SF culture. But, how long will you be there? If you don't stay long enough to get a good strong culture, it may be for naught. As long as the culture is in initial development stages, there is always a chance for changes, even major ones. Once you get an established starter, do what the big SF bakeries purportedly do - feed your starter in a way that keeps the culture dominant. That means, your inoculation amount has to be greater than the new food you give it. Something like 1.x or more starter to one flour and one water by weight. The starter will need to be cared for very diligently to keep it that way indefinitely. But, if that's what you want, there's no harm In trying it. If you decide later that it's not worth that much effort, then you don't have to do anything but just start maintaining it like a regular, non-special starter, or just mix it in with another starter you already have or bake it all away, or whatever.
about a SF starter. I started mine there in 1973. moved it all over the place in 40 plus years and I'm sure it is different today but my palate just isn't good enough to tell any difference in the bread it made over those years. Where ever you go it will just adapt to what ever flour and water you feed it.
I wouldn't let the hype and hyperbole of SFSD and starters from there get in the way of the facts. Their bread isn't any better then anyone elses and, for me, it isn't as sour as it was 40 years ago. They have modified the taste to be less sour on purpose to sell more bread - good for them - because most people don't like sour bread. At least I can still make the real '0ld Time' SFSD in Arizona.......and make the new version too from my 'old time' starter that isn't anything like it was 40 years ago.
It is just plain fun to make a starter in SF though and I bet I will be doing so the next time I am there:-)
My understanding of sourdough cultures is that the microflora come from the grain rather than the air, and on most grains, l. sanfranciscensis (the lactobacillis that produces acid) grows naturally. That said, I live in San Francisco and would be happy to share some of my culture with you. Contact me by private message if you would like to set something up.
-Brad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/0/19558634
Interesting!
I like that they mention Marco Gobbetti. Legend!
L. Sanfranciscensis has been found naturally in other starters around the world.
No apparently about it! FACT.
I'm pretty sure that no two starters are the same. Logic tells me all our starters are unique. Even down to different ways of keeping, feeding, maintaining etc.
Oh absolutely. The way it is kept is perhaps the most determining factor.
... from the BBC article:
From what i have read and in talking to others a starter from any location will change over time. I am not doubting the person from Edinburgh who says his has not changed in 22 years. it just stands to reason in my thinking that it will pick up the local wild yeast and flour and water changes would change it over time.
More likely than not, people keep their starters in a closed container or under some kind of cover so that it will not dry out, rather than exposed to the air where local yeast could settle on it in any significant quantity. Even so, the local airborne yeast would have to be somehow different from what's already in the flour and settle on the starter in a significant quantity in order to change the flavor.
I would give much more weight to the idea that changes in flour would contribute to a starter changing over time, or if there were something drastically different about the water such as impurities or excessive chlorination.
The notion that special properties of the local yeast in San Francisco are what make the local bread unique doesn't really stand up to scrutiny and can probably be dismissed as so much marketing hype from one particular bakery. Still, if someone wants to take his jar of starter to San Francisco and wave it around in the air to capture some of the local yeast, I hope they have fun doing so.
I revived a 40 yr old packet of Sourdough Jack starter (prob originally sold in the 60's) that I found at a flea market. Interesting experience-it was INSTANTLY active and bubbling away after the first feeding. It tasted like rancid flour,tho, having been dried in WW flour that was 40+yrs old. After a week of feedings, he smelled wonderful and made wonderful bread. Now, 5 yrs (?) later, he has changed a bit but actually I can distinguish his flavor in bread from my other starter. I have to believe that he had a strong,balanced relationship going on with whatever yeasts and lactos were present in the original and that variety is just not too fussy about how it is maintained. I'm sure many other yeast /lacto varieties have come and gone in his neighborhood. So he has changed but not much.
mature, other local invading yeast and LAB have a hard time taking over a stable culture if it is well maintained and full of strong competitors Those wee beasties are almost impossible to kill even if you try to do so.. i cant really tell the difference in m starter's bread over 40 years but I just chalked it up to having an insensitive palate and smoking for 35 years:-) i can make it more or less sour when ever I want but it tastes the same to me.
I know that Ian's bread tastes totally different too sine he sent me a couple of loaves last Holiday season. I was amazed at the difference in taste.
This idea of picking up local strains of yeast from the air seems a bit dubious to me. I'm sure there's plenty of yeast living in my kitchen, but after baking several times a week for three or four years, the commonest strain is likely to be Allinson's Easy Bake!
Also, isn't yeast metabolism pretty basic, giving rise to fairly simple byproducts (CO2, alcohol)? Seems to me the flavour is more likely down to the relative proportions of the beasties and the type of flour, rather than the specific strain of yeast.
See also http://www.intechopen.com/books/food-industry/yeast-world-s-finest-chef for some descriptions of different yeast metabolic pathways. It is not as simple as sugar in, Alcohol/CO2 out, there is many sub and by products, in the form of esters (fruity),aldehydes (astringant, biting), and many others.
Fair enough.
I suppose the question then would be, how much do these byproducts (and their proportions) vary as a function of yeast strain, versus feeding schedule, hydration and flour type. Do different strains of the same species react significantly differently to the same feeding?
Am I right in thinking that most sourdough starters are s. Sanfranciscencis? How common is s. Cervisei (baker's yeast) in sourdough starters? My 'Allinson's Easy Bake' comment was only half joking - the air in my kitchen must be thick with the stuff. And that's an entirely different species.