Rumor has it that bakeries wanting to fake sourdough use commercial yeast vs sourdough starter and add citric acid to their dough to artificially sour it......But you didn't hear it here.
I think some lactic acid would be better, would it not? Maybe a little buttermilk or sour cream added as part of the liquid in the dough would give a good flavor. On top of that, if you wanted to make it a little more complex, add a tsp. of vinegar, too. You don't want enough to give it a pronounced acetic flavor (or at least, I wouldn't), just enough to tweak it a little. If I were going to try it, I'd probably replace half my liquid with buttermilk and add one tsp. vinegar per 1000g flour. Autolyse the liquids and the flour before adding commercial yeast and salt. I'd bake a test loaf to evaluate the bread and make changes to the recipe, if needed.
Edit: If you use yogurt, you'd have live lactobacillus culture, like a real sourdough!
In some ways it's a shame as they're independent, but are catering to the masses - they supply to lots of small shops in the county. At least it's not the Chorleywood process..
E300 is Ascorbic acid aka Vitamin C - used as a flour improver/gluten strenthener. (and "burnt sugar" is the new name for caramel - used as a colouring)
The term "burnt sugar" has been around for centuries, and is not absolutely interchangeable with "caramel." Burnt sugar is a form of caramel, but it is a subset; the term refers only to caramel cooked beyond the candy stage, to the point where it has neither flavor nor texture.
I've just re-read the European guidelines on labelling - it's apparently to clarify ingredients to consumers. Burnt sugar refers to a flavouring and/or sweetener, caramel is a colouring. (I was under the impression they'd simply renamed it)
So in the above bread, it's used as a flavouring and/or sweetner
What was your point in posting the label of your local bakery, and what is shameful about their selling bread to the masses? From their label alone, their reputation should not be discredited or called to question. I feel that posting this is unfair to them, you might know something that we don`t but thats not justification to throw bad light on their business.
This thread is about alternatives to starters, or cheats to sourdough - I'm showing that yes, you can cheat by using sourdough powder and it's used by commercial bakeries. Buy it here. Want instant sourdough? Buy it in a bag and stick it in your bread machine.
There's no shame in showing their label, nor any discredit and I'm not throwing bad-light on their business either. They have to have that label by law in this country and its as simple as that. Walk into any shop, see a loaf in a bag and by law it has to have a label with all the ingredients on it. I have no shame showing it as it's information required by law and in the public domain. If they're ashamed of it then they shouldn't make and sell it, however they are a successful business and have been selling breads for 18 years in Devon, employ 25 people and provide regular deliveries to small shops in the region, so they're doing something right and/or selling to people who give little thought to ingredients.
Personally, I think it's a shame that some of the independent bakeries have to resort to using sourdough powder to improve the flavour of their breads rather than making a proper sourdough loaf - especially as they deliver to the heart of organic hippy-land Devon. Having a good clear label allows me to make an informed choice about what I buy.
FWIW: There are bigger bakeries than these folk in the south west of England who do make and distribute (over a greater distance!) proper long-fermented sourdough breads, so it's not as if its an impossible task.
I make and sell a dozen overnight fermented sourdough loaves a day and I'm looking at doubling my output soon, so I know there is a market for it.
I am a firm believer in good, honest food with as little processing as possible. That's a possible a side-effect of living in hippy central Devon, but it's also because I know a lot of the local farmers here and appreciate their efforts. Tomorrow I'm off to the nearest flour mill to buy 50Kg of stoneground flour - still warm off the stones. It's a 40 minute drive each way, but very worth it.
My point is that you are implying that they claim to be selling or promoting their bread as sourdough. Unless you show something different, that is disingenuous. All that I can gather from that label is that sourdough powder may be used as a flavor enhancer. Making sourdough is a labor intensive job, which might not be profitable for them to undertake. If you supplied information showing that they were misrepresenting their product as "sourdough bread", then I wouldn`t deem it important to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can only make my judgement by the information that you supplied.
I didn't say their bread was sourdough bread. No-where in this thread did I say that the SM (small) SL (sliced) multiseed cob from Hallets was sourdough bread. I used it as an example of short-cutting the process which is what the original poster was after. That's all. If you want to short-cut the sourdough process, then buy sourdough powder.
If you want to think it's disingenuous then that's up to you.
You can certainly powder your own starter and use it as an added ingredient to your yeast breads for flavor. I like using traditional sourdough because the bread keeps a good period of time. If am going to make a yeasted bread, I am perfectly content with the flavor without adding any enhancers.
And that's half the problem. Supermarkets, etc, could, if they wanted to just sprinkle vinegar/lactic acid, etc. into a mix and call it sourdough, and no-one can make any sort of legal fuss over it.
Also, in that ingredient list, which appears to conform to the new UK regulations to allergen listings, ie. they're in bold text, the "sourdough powder" isn't in bold, therefore doesn't contain gluten ... Although I suspect this is simply an oversight on their labelling part.
Sourdough is sourdough. It is a noun. Of course the UK has a real definition of sourdough. There may be legalities that can be gotten around but there's no changing the definition.
Sourdough starter (or culture) has no gluten as the yeasts destroy it. Perhaps this means it IS real sourdough culture.
There's still no recognised definition of the word sourdough in commercial bread in the UK. Anyone could make Chorleywood process bread and sprinkle on "sourdough flavour" (whatever that might be) and sell it as sourdough bread.
That's the issue. (or one of them).
There are moves to create an official definition for sourdough bread, (e.g. natural ferments, no commercial yeast, a minimum bulk ferment time and so on), but it's the sort of thing that takes a long time (and money).
To be fair, looking at the label on this loaf of bread, there is no false claim that it is "sourdough"bread. The label lists the ingredients which might be required by law. I think the reason most us bake our owe is to be assured of what we, our families and friends are getting in every bite. Most people can`t tell a fake Rolex from the real thing and food is treated just like fashion. Sourdough police, only in my kitchen.
Buy a (Allegedly) sourdough loaf from as cheap a shop as you can find - Take it out of the packet and serve it to your friends/family/customers - That's the cheating bit.
The sour bit is/comes when they find out what you did.
Rumor has it that bakeries wanting to fake sourdough use commercial yeast vs sourdough starter and add citric acid to their dough to artificially sour it......But you didn't hear it here.
I think some lactic acid would be better, would it not? Maybe a little buttermilk or sour cream added as part of the liquid in the dough would give a good flavor. On top of that, if you wanted to make it a little more complex, add a tsp. of vinegar, too. You don't want enough to give it a pronounced acetic flavor (or at least, I wouldn't), just enough to tweak it a little. If I were going to try it, I'd probably replace half my liquid with buttermilk and add one tsp. vinegar per 1000g flour. Autolyse the liquids and the flour before adding commercial yeast and salt. I'd bake a test loaf to evaluate the bread and make changes to the recipe, if needed.
Edit: If you use yogurt, you'd have live lactobacillus culture, like a real sourdough!
That's not an idle rumor or a hush-hush secret. It is widely known in the baking industry.
The lack of flavor gives these breads away. They might as well be Wonder bread.
Has this as an ingredients label:
In some ways it's a shame as they're independent, but are catering to the masses - they supply to lots of small shops in the county. At least it's not the Chorleywood process..
E300 is Ascorbic acid aka Vitamin C - used as a flour improver/gluten strenthener. (and "burnt sugar" is the new name for caramel - used as a colouring)
-Gordon
The term "burnt sugar" has been around for centuries, and is not absolutely interchangeable with "caramel." Burnt sugar is a form of caramel, but it is a subset; the term refers only to caramel cooked beyond the candy stage, to the point where it has neither flavor nor texture.
I've just re-read the European guidelines on labelling - it's apparently to clarify ingredients to consumers. Burnt sugar refers to a flavouring and/or sweetener, caramel is a colouring. (I was under the impression they'd simply renamed it)
So in the above bread, it's used as a flavouring and/or sweetner
-Gordon
Hi Gordon,
What was your point in posting the label of your local bakery, and what is shameful about their selling bread to the masses? From their label alone, their reputation should not be discredited or called to question. I feel that posting this is unfair to them, you might know something that we don`t but thats not justification to throw bad light on their business.
This thread is about alternatives to starters, or cheats to sourdough - I'm showing that yes, you can cheat by using sourdough powder and it's used by commercial bakeries. Buy it here. Want instant sourdough? Buy it in a bag and stick it in your bread machine.
There's no shame in showing their label, nor any discredit and I'm not throwing bad-light on their business either. They have to have that label by law in this country and its as simple as that. Walk into any shop, see a loaf in a bag and by law it has to have a label with all the ingredients on it. I have no shame showing it as it's information required by law and in the public domain. If they're ashamed of it then they shouldn't make and sell it, however they are a successful business and have been selling breads for 18 years in Devon, employ 25 people and provide regular deliveries to small shops in the region, so they're doing something right and/or selling to people who give little thought to ingredients.
Personally, I think it's a shame that some of the independent bakeries have to resort to using sourdough powder to improve the flavour of their breads rather than making a proper sourdough loaf - especially as they deliver to the heart of organic hippy-land Devon. Having a good clear label allows me to make an informed choice about what I buy.
FWIW: There are bigger bakeries than these folk in the south west of England who do make and distribute (over a greater distance!) proper long-fermented sourdough breads, so it's not as if its an impossible task.
I make and sell a dozen overnight fermented sourdough loaves a day and I'm looking at doubling my output soon, so I know there is a market for it.
I am a firm believer in good, honest food with as little processing as possible. That's a possible a side-effect of living in hippy central Devon, but it's also because I know a lot of the local farmers here and appreciate their efforts. Tomorrow I'm off to the nearest flour mill to buy 50Kg of stoneground flour - still warm off the stones. It's a 40 minute drive each way, but very worth it.
-Gordon
Gordon,
My point is that you are implying that they claim to be selling or promoting their bread as sourdough. Unless you show something different, that is disingenuous. All that I can gather from that label is that sourdough powder may be used as a flavor enhancer. Making sourdough is a labor intensive job, which might not be profitable for them to undertake. If you supplied information showing that they were misrepresenting their product as "sourdough bread", then I wouldn`t deem it important to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can only make my judgement by the information that you supplied.
.. I think you've not got the point at all.
I didn't say their bread was sourdough bread. No-where in this thread did I say that the SM (small) SL (sliced) multiseed cob from Hallets was sourdough bread. I used it as an example of short-cutting the process which is what the original poster was after. That's all. If you want to short-cut the sourdough process, then buy sourdough powder.
If you want to think it's disingenuous then that's up to you.
-Gordon
Emulsifiers would be lecithin?
Lecithin is an emulsifier but not all emulsifiers are lecithin ;)
Gerhard
You can certainly powder your own starter and use it as an added ingredient to your yeast breads for flavor. I like using traditional sourdough because the bread keeps a good period of time. If am going to make a yeasted bread, I am perfectly content with the flavor without adding any enhancers.
At least not in the UK ... Yet.
And that's half the problem. Supermarkets, etc, could, if they wanted to just sprinkle vinegar/lactic acid, etc. into a mix and call it sourdough, and no-one can make any sort of legal fuss over it.
Also, in that ingredient list, which appears to conform to the new UK regulations to allergen listings, ie. they're in bold text, the "sourdough powder" isn't in bold, therefore doesn't contain gluten ... Although I suspect this is simply an oversight on their labelling part.
-Gordon
If there is no definition of "sourdough" then you have no idea what "sourdough powder" is, and no reason to think it has gluten in it.
Sourdough is sourdough. It is a noun. Of course the UK has a real definition of sourdough. There may be legalities that can be gotten around but there's no changing the definition.
Sourdough starter (or culture) has no gluten as the yeasts destroy it. Perhaps this means it IS real sourdough culture.
There's still no recognised definition of the word sourdough in commercial bread in the UK. Anyone could make Chorleywood process bread and sprinkle on "sourdough flavour" (whatever that might be) and sell it as sourdough bread.
That's the issue. (or one of them).
There are moves to create an official definition for sourdough bread, (e.g. natural ferments, no commercial yeast, a minimum bulk ferment time and so on), but it's the sort of thing that takes a long time (and money).
The Read Bread campaign has a lot more on it all
-Gordon
To be fair, looking at the label on this loaf of bread, there is no false claim that it is "sourdough"bread. The label lists the ingredients which might be required by law. I think the reason most us bake our owe is to be assured of what we, our families and friends are getting in every bite. Most people can`t tell a fake Rolex from the real thing and food is treated just like fashion. Sourdough police, only in my kitchen.
Buy a (Allegedly) sourdough loaf from as cheap a shop as you can find - Take it out of the packet and serve it to your friends/family/customers - That's the cheating bit.
The sour bit is/comes when they find out what you did.
Happy cheating,
Brian
It's a sourdough