October 30, 2014 - 6:43pm
Bosch Compact Rips Sourdough and Kneads Air
I am trying for the first time to make Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough with Increased Whole Grain (Bread flour 85%, Whole rye flour 15%, Water 65%, Salt 1.9%).
I was trying to knead the dough after autolyse. The Bosch Compact was fitted with the dough hook and after mixing the dough for a while on the slowest speed, the dough clung to the sides of the bowl, and the hook ripped a hole in the center, so it was basically spinning without touching any of the dough. There was no contact at all between the hook and the dough.
I have used this mixer to knead other types of dough with success.
Any ideas?
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I have had a similar problem, the dough goes to the outside of the bowl ( I had the opposite problem with the same recipe in the Universal - the dough got wrapped around the center column and didn't knead). Usually, temperature and hydration play a role. If the dough it too cold, it tends to stick to the outside, same if it is too wet. I have had some luck turning off the machine, using a spatula to scrape the dough into a ball, let it sit for 5 minutes, and turn on the machine. Sometimes that fixes it, sometimes it doesn't , and I then repeat the step, but on the second try, I turn the mixer up to speed 3 or 4, and watch it closely, once it is kneading well, I turn the speed down to 2. The next time you try the recipe, try reserving 10% of the water, see if it kneads well, if so, once it is kneaded, add the last 10 % at the end.
Interesting, thanks.
The question is what to do now. I don't think it was kneaded enough, and at this point, it's in bulk fermentation.
Should I do extra stretch-and-folds?
You could do the "window-pane test" and hand knead it some more if the gluten doesn't seem developed.
The worst you could do is bake it and chalk it up to experience.
double post
Alpine, if you did not do stretch and folds after you took it out of the mixer, it was not kneaded enough. As you first mix the dough, there are no gluten strands and it is like sand mixed in water. As time progresses ( autolyse ) or you continue to knead, or both, the gluten strands develop and they form links making the dough more cohesive, which in turn allows the dough hook to knead the dough. The times I have had the situation you described is when the dough has not developed much gluten, so it won't stick together at all, and it is like a spoon moving through wet sand, it doesn't have any impact. This is an excellent video showing how in the as the dough is kneaded, it forms more structure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnxiawZoL4A&index=2&list=PL02A67F155E9A6668 Note that Hamelman will do stretch and folds after this step to further develop the gluten. But if the dough had the same structure that it does around the 3 minute mark, it would not cling to the sides, it would form a dough ball. This person is using a 57% hydration, and there is no real risk that it will just sit on the outside of the bowl at that low of a hydration, but you can see how it comes together in the second clip http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,33689.0.html
I ended up doing 4-5 stretch-and-folds every 30-40 minutes.
The loaf is cooling currently. In terms of appearance, not great but not disastrous...
Alpine, I disagree, I would call that great. - Tremendous oven spring.