Where is the problem ?
Hi all,
I'm need to the forum and have tried to search a lot of topics to find answers. And my problem is very simple, probably..
Thanks for a great community, by the way.
Yesterday i tried the tartine bread, country bread. I did'nt succeed. I had to throw it out, and the worst part is, that i don't have the answer to my problem.
Leaven was started on an active sourdough in the evening. Placed in 60 F over night and in the morning fresh and smelled ok. The rise of the leaven was about 35%.
Then started baking according to chad's recipe. Put the dough in the container and did the turns every half hour for the first 2 hours and then waited for the bulk fermentation to end. The bulk temp was around 80F.
Here the problem started - the dough did not rise or at least only 10% after 5-6 hours. I tried to do the initial shaping but the dough did not have any structure and just spreading all over the table. Then i stopped the bread making and started analysing.
But so far i haven't found the answers - should i just have waited longer for the bulk or is it probaly the leaven and starter which is not active ?
Thanks, peter
Ps. tried another loaf just with water, sourdough, flour and salt. Mixed the ingredients and put in a container. And here 15 hours later in 65F is had only rised for 30%.
I'm unfamiliar with Chad's Tartine as I've never tried it. But from what you've described your levain (starter) seems to be the problem. 35% for overnight doesn't sound healthy. I dont know the method but are you building the levain from scratch or do you have an established starter the you feed? My starter can almost quadruple overnight.
with his process, but from what I do know he advocates the use of a "young" levain which, I suppose all else being said yours would classify as. But to me the issue sounds possibly more structural then microbial. A dough with insufficient gluten development or damaged gluten won't rise well. Are you sure you developed the gluten fully, or at least as fully as is detailed in the book? have you ever had success with a dough of this type/hydration? have you ever had success with your sourdough culture? If you have developed the gluten properly and the dough has less structure after the lengthy bulk ferment instead of hopefully a little more maybe your levain is crazy acidic and broke down the dough.
how do you keep your starter culture?
Agreed with all previous posters. Your starter is definitely not active enough yet. Focus on increasing the health and the speed of the starter for now.
If your starter can't double in size in 4-6 hours, it's not ready!
The Tartine recipe calls for lower temperatures and a fairly large inoculation. It is not expected to have risen that much by morning. This is not the actual mother starter, but a portion removed and fed at these specifications. But since things are not progressing in the bulk ferment I still agree that it is an issue with the starter not being strong enough.
double post
How old is your starter? How long does it take to rise and fall? How much does it rise before it falls? How much are you feeding?
Sounds like your starter is not very strong. Although the 35% at 60F seems to be on par with the recipe. That cold temperature is going to slow things down. But the bulk ferment should have gone much quicker. Did you try the float test before using the leaven in the morning? Are you using the flours indicated?
For those unfamiliar with Tartine:
make sure to use warm water throughout each step? A little temp can make a lot of difference. Since this is more or less a 77% hydration loaf the gluten needs to be developed. Chad uses 30 min folds but I bet you could just as easily do slap and folds or give it a good whizz in a mixer. The important thing is to develop gluten structure one way or another.
Did you give your starter the float test?
How long have you been maintaining it and has it been living in the fridge? If so, it may well need a couple of days feeding to get back up to speed.
I haven't tried this Tartine Country Loaf myself but I can see the recipe on other websites so will give it a go. I would prefer more wheat content than the 10% in the recipe but as it is, there ought to be plenty of gluten structure formed by the 900g of white flour.
GL with your next attempt