Help with dough formation and getting those nice EARS! (I don't have a stand mixer!)
Hi Guys!
I've been MIA from TFL for quite a long time now. Been working on building up my blog www.nothymetowaste.org which is primarily baked goods, and I haven't been making much bread. Especially during the hot summer months! But, it's autumn again so naturally I'm back on the bread train.
As a pastry professional by trade, I don't get a chance in my work life to make many breads - mostly desserts. Bread is something I'm passionate about, but I feel like I'm still having troubles getting proper crusts due to improper dough formation. I do not have a stand mixer of any kind, just my wee little hands!
Doughs with higher ratios of moisture seem to be better, as I can do the stretch and fold technique over time throughout the day... (so the ciabatta was quite nice), but firmer doughs are an issue. Any tips and pointers for getting proper dough formation for those lovely ears I see all over TFL!? Help!
Ashley.
I make dough down to 55% hydration (bagels) by hand with no issues. I knead and rest the dough just like the higher hydration. Work it for 5 min then rest for 30 min. The dough gets really nice after the third knead then I just let it double, or stick it in the fridge if its late. Early morning right out of the fridge I shape and place back in fridge. It does a cold final rise while Im at work. When I get home oven goes on and once at temp loafs get slashed and into the oven. To get the nice ear you really need to watch how your slashing. As Jeffery Hammelman told me you just need to slip the blade under the skin and not down into the meat of the dough. The angle of the blade matters too. You want a very acute angle. If the blade is straight up and down you wont get the ear.
Thank you Manna! This makes perfect sense to me when I think about the issues I've had. I will keep practicing and get myself a proper sharp blade as well!
THANK YOU!
There are a few ways to get better structure in hand mixing.
Classic Kneading which is hard work and doesn't work well with high hydration dough.
Stretch and folds popularized via Tartine which you are using and as you know works very well with higher hydration dough.
Pinch and fold which Forkish and Miscovich show in their respective books. you pinch the dough between your thumb and pointer finger cutting pieces of dough off. Then lightly stretch and fold back into a mass and repeat until desired strength (I use this most and when stretching and fold together I slap the dough to help incorporate air early on.
Finally there is the Slap and Fold made popular by Richard Bertinet. There are many videos on youtube showing this but essentially you slap dough on table stretch slightly and fold over itself to incorporate air. This is a very effective method.
I bet there are even more techniques but I've played with all of these.
Then as for good ears. Proper Angles Blade and slashes as per MANNA suggests and a well steamed oven are crucial.
Cheers
Josh
A nice detailed response! Awesome!
I was indeed having problems getting proper steam before, but have now found a proper fry pan that gives off a good dose of it when I add ice water. Do you prefer one over the other when it comes to the spray bottle vs. the 'water into a pan' (for those who are doing this at home?). I can easily use the steam function on our decks at work, but for this particular project I'm making all the bread at home.
Looks like I need to practice the slashing, and as mentioned above- get a nice super sharp blade.
I've never considered this pinch and fold method of snipping off dough... I'll have to You Tube it and see exact how it works. Thank you for a very helpful reply, I appreciate it very much!
Will post new trials soon!
Ashley.
is essentially what it sounds like. I've kind adopted this but with a little less pinch and a bit of stretch trying to mimic a mixer and have been have great results.
As for steam in the home oven. I'd say spraying the oven periodically is maybe the worst way of the variety folks tend to use. I also don't like to pre spray the loaf as I think it makes for a chewy crust opposed to crunchy. Silvia's steam towel method delivers the largest dose of continued steam of them all. In conjunction with a tray of lava rocks for the burst at the start of the bake.
Cheers
Josh
My experience has been very limited, but I am well-read on the subject. :)
I get great crust baking high hydration loaves in the lodge combo cooker, the pans trap the steam from the loaf for the first half of the bake before uncovering for the second half of the bake. This obviously works better for round loaves, though I suppose it would work just as well for loaves of any shape so long as they fit in the pan.
Many people suggest that there is no reason to use ice, since it will lower the oven temperature and you will get adequate steam with water. I don't know. I was reluctant to pour water in my cast iron pan to let it boil away because I was concerned with rust. But I suppose that is a dumb concern given how little time the water would sit in the pan and that it would be baked dry before it could rust... right?
My 40 year perfectlyseasoned cast iron pan was totally ruined in 1 month using lava rocks and water in it to make steam for bread at 500 F. It was a total rust bucket when I stopped using it and never could get it anywhere back to what it was, I'm going to have it sand blasted!
Wrap the pan in cloth rags; saturate them with white vinegar; wrap the whole business in plastic or seal it in a plastic bag, and leave it for 24 hours, preferably sitting out in the sun during the day. This will kill what's left of the 40-year seasoning, alas, but so would sand-blasting, right? and in any case that aspect is pretty much a total loss anyway. More to the point, it will also kill the rust - it'll be messy when you unwrap it, and you'll need a bit of elbow grease to clean off the residue, but this will take the pan back to square one so you can start seasoning it properly again. I've done this successfully with a 60-year-seasoned cast iron griddle, a wok, an old chef's knife, and several steel reeds from a production loom - all of them rusted beyond recognition when I found them, all of them back in regular use now.
At 400+ degrees it won't rust.
It will rust faster than you can say Sourdough Bread.
Ruining the seasoning on a 40 year old cast iron pan is heart breaking.
Does this happen to everybody who uses cast iron for steamong? Obviously there is steam when we use the cboncooker for baking and there is no rust. But maybe there would be if it wasnt lightly oiled after use.
Out of curiosity, after the heavy soaking your pan took with the mega steaming, did you use it for regular cooking/add a coat of oil?
I bake in a Lodge cast-iron D.O. and have had NO trouble with rust. However, I spray a mist of water on the loaf and there is no standing water in it. Most of the mist lands on the loaf. The small amount of water that gets on the iron evaporates pretty quickly.
I did have a steel loaf pan that started to have problems when I used it as a vessel for standing water for steam.
Good advice above. Just to reiterate that if you want high ears the angle of the score matters. The advice that helped me the most was to hold the lame like a spoon. I use a double edged razor on a wooden stirring stick (the kind used to stir coffee). There are several videos on scoring. I like this one because the visuals are very clear (this might be where I first heard to hold like a spoon but I don't remember):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QdzHuhJ-ls