Frustrated!!
I used the starter listed here in TFL (http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10251/starting-starter-sourdough-101-tutorial) The first starter did great had a very good taste even with my first loaf, but after that it went downhill. I am learning so I know problems are to be expected. I tried a few more different recipes but they all tasted horrible, (one fermented too long I couldn't even feed it to my chickens, although I could have sold it on ebay as a weapon). So I took a break and decided to do a new starter this week.
I had problems with it rising the first time so someone suggested I put it in the oven with the light on. WOW it did great until the 3rd day. It got very weak. It did rise some but it doesn't matter what I do it gets clear liquid on top, and it quits rising. BUT my biggest problem is that lets say it calls for 3 cups of flour in a recipe, I can only get about 2 before it just won't even stick together. It is so very dry. Do I need to add maybe 1/4 cup of flour and a 1/4 cup of water (instead of the 1/8 cup water). ?? I appreciate any and all help. I am determined to get this right before it drives me crazy. Thank you!!
Hi, I was reading through the recipe and wonder where you read about 3 cups of flour?
You do not at all put this amount in during the entire time of building your Starter.
In the starter I only use 1/4 cup flour and 1/8 cup of water. I was wondering if I needed to up the water to 1/4 to match the amount of flour?
The 3 cups of flour was after the starter was done and I was ready to bake. I can't find it now but I had one recipe that was two cups or more of starter then 3 cups of flour (other ingredients too).
Sorry for the confusion. I'll keep looking for the recipe I used.
Here is one recipe I used, the one that turned out so awful. http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/sour.htm
The link I provided is dead. I can't find the first recipe for sourdough I used now.
on the Archive.org Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110616142309/http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/sour.htm
Oh I see.
Well, since I do go by weight and not by Volume I wont be able to help you there.
If you want to bake consistently good bread you should really get yourself a good pair of kitchen scales.
I stopped today on my way home from work and bought a digital food scale. I thank you for the idea. I am very excited to try it!
Here's a website that converts food volume measurements to weights or weights to volumes:
Weight to Volume Cooking Converter
http://www.onlineconversion.com/weight_volume_cooking.htm
Thank you that will come in very handy!! I appreciate the help!!
Yes! Although I did not use that link for the starter, I used it for the bread recipe. 2 cups of sponge and 3 cups of flour. But it does not matter what recipe for bread (not starter) I use, when adding flour my dough ends up like cement.
The starter however I got from the first link I provided and it has very good flavor but no matter what I do I get hooch. Just a sad sad day in my bread making world :(
You say you started the Starter only this week, so it is a very young starter and I would wait to about day 14 before you use it for baking.
It will be mature enough by than to be reliable for leavening a bread.
Reg. the hooch.
How and where do you Store your Starter?
I use a glass jar and I did put it up in a dark cabinet but with this 2nd starter I have been keeping it in the oven with the light on. I appreciate all your help.
are so unreliable. Especially when compared to weight measurements.
The other thing you've learned (although maybe it wasn't obvious) is that a 3-day old starter isn't really a starter yet. Those first few days of manic, frothing activity are usually attributable to bacterial fermentation, not yeast fermentation. That's okay; it's a stage almost every new starter goes throught. And then it goes flat, no bubbles for 2-3 days, and people tend to throw it out thinking that their starter has died. It hasn't; that's yet another stage the starter goes through when a different group of bacteria are active, just not nearly so gassy. Finally, in a few more days, you start seeing bubbles again. This is the beginning of the yeast taking over the starter. Depending on temperatures, flours, water, hydration level, the phase of the moon (not really), you may have a starter that is beginning to stabilize around Day 7. You can probably bake a loaf of bread, using the starter as leavener, at about this time. From there on out, it's a matter of feeding the starter at regular intervals.
Back to weights. Water is pretty reliable if using volume measurements, in that you can't pack more of it into a cup than your neighbor can. However, the reliability of the cups themselves is highly suspect. Flour, on the other hand, can be packed into a cup, so that you and your neighbor can make the same bread following the same process with the same tools and come out with very different results. If you use weights, though, an ouce is an ounce and a gram is a gram, whoever measures it.
From weights we get bakers percentages. This is a simple way of looking at formulae that can revolutionize your bread baking. The key, for me anyway, has been the realization that hydration has a profound effect on the final bread. By hydration, I mean the quantity of water (in weight) relative to the quantity of flour (also in weight). A simple example: 650g of water and 1000g of flour yields a 65% hydration dough ((650/1000)*100=65%). That's very typical of the hydration in a sandwich loaf. Another example: 450g of water and 600g of flour yields a 75% hydration dough ((450/600)*100=75%). That's more typical of the 'artisanal' or 'hearth style' breads you see here on TFL with the very open crumb.
To your situation, I would recommend first that you allow your starter to mature a few more days until it is reliably rising and falling in a predictable fashion. Then start with a formula whose quantities are measured in weights, rather than volumes. You will still have to adjust for variations in flour absorbency but you will be much closer to where you want to be.
Paul
Thank you so much for your response. I particularly enjoyed the phases of the moon statement!! All kidding aside, your reply was very detailed. I thank you very much for the useful information. I stopped and bought a digital kitchen scale today. I am very excited to give them a try and see if the scale will help me achieve better results. I appreciate you taking the time to explain these things to me!! Thanks so much!
I very much agree with you reg. the meassuring by weight.
I grew up with the metric systeme, we never used cups in Germany, always kitchen scales and that is such a great weigh to get consistently good bakes.
I have had a quick read through your question and all the comments... I empathise with you and agree with all the comments. I tried to make a starter by following instructions, which used volume, and I created something which resembled a blob out of a Men in Black movie.
First of all follow the advice in the comments and work in grams. Secondly, I ditched the so called instructions and went back to the drawing board using my own common sense following these easy to follow rules when creating a 100% hydration starter...
For example...
Once your starter is strong enough to at least double in 6-8 hours, or overnight, its good to bake with. From now on you don't need to discard just work out how much you want to keep for your baking and work a schedule around it.
Thank you so very much for all the information. I hope to put it to good use very soon. I am more confident now that I have the scale and some good structure on kind of what to go for. Thanks so much for taking the time to understand my dilemma and to provide me with such good detailed information. Thank you!! :)
Thank you so much all of you. I have gained a wealth of information here. I am actually going to put the whole thread into a word document to save so I can always have it in case it gets too hard to find on here. I really do thank you all, this information has given me so much more confidence and I am ready and excited to try again!!!