dull looking baguette
Hi all
I am not new to this forum but have mostly been a silent reader, and learning a lot from all of you here. Have started making my culture couple of weeks back, and tried my hands at sourdough baking. Tried this recipe from KAF website. Though the taste is good, I am wondering what I did wrong because
1. the crust is of a very dull colour
2. there seems to be absence of the trade mark big holes
Not sure whether I attached correctly, but the pix should be right on top?
Anywhere, here is the recipe I used
120g levain (50% water, 50% flour)
210g bread flour
3/4tsp yeast
113g water
1 1/2 tsp salt
My levain was stored in the fridge, so I took out a portion, refreshed it, covered and leave in room temp.
After 12 hours, I refreshed again, covered, and leave in room temp.
After another 8 hours, I made the dough, cover, and left on counter top.
After 1 hour, fold. Repeat folding after another 2 hours.
Then divide. Shape, Proof for 1 1/2 hours on the counter top, covered.
And finally bake about 25min at 230C. My oven does not have steam, so I sprayed steam in the chamber before sending the scored bread in.
Any advice?
in the first 10 minutes or so of baking would likely help. Try a pan full of lava rocks heated up with your oven. Then, after you deliver your loaves, add about 1 cup boiling water to the rocks (careful of the steam that will rise to greet you). And/or use "Sylvia's steam tray" [search this site] which is a baking dish filled half way with water in which a dish towel soaks but is not completely submerged. Place in oven about 15 min before you load your loaves. Remove either type of steam tray at about 10 min of baking.
I think , for a first try at SD baking , those looks great.
I am not a fan of those big holes, I like to have some crumb under the crust though to me, they look perfect.
Petra
Usually the dull colour can be attributed to most of the sugars being used up by the yeasts or not high enough oven temperature or a combination of both. I dont think the lack of sheen detracts from the bread at all but you can always apply a cornflour wash to the loaves as they go into the oven, this will also assist where you have no steam assistance as it will help in that initial phase it will also help in that the wash will have its starches/ sugars intact rater than having been depleated by the yeasts consuming them.
kind regards Derek
Like Derek, I would guess it is overproofing:
Having two leavening agents that consume sugar and of which each of one could do the job alone at room temperature, you would have needed to cool the dough to not overproof. I imagine, KingArthur does have a climate controlled proofing room.
But don't worry. The shape and scoring look very good. And this is usually where people (me included) struggle. And I'm at the moment also eating pale baguettes. I made an overnight proof with just 3.5% levain. - But apparently the temperature in the kitchen never fell below 24.5°C (as too my digital thermostat), and 14h were too long where usually 20 are perfectly fine.
Adrian
you would need a recipe that has more water in it. 64% hydration is pretty low. The KA recipe i use for baguettes is just SD and 67% hydration that I bump up to 70%. I use lava rocks in a pan half full of water with 2 of Sylvia's steaming pans and they go on the bottom rack when the preheat temperature hit 525 F and by the time the oven is at 550 F the stream is billowing - make sure to stand back as you open the door to out the bread in. Then turn the oven down to 475 F for the steaming period.
I agree the recipe will lead to pale loaves. If you drop the yeast entirely, up the hydration and steam - your baguettes will improve greatly as if by magic. I don't even slash mine anymore preferring Pierre Nury's Rustic ones instead where they are stretched 2" right before going in the oven - Search Pierre Nury's Rustic Light Rye for that
Thanks everyone for coming to my help.
V's and Dabrownman, what is Sylvia's steaming pan?
Petra, thanks so much for your kind encouragement. Will certainly keep trying.
Derek, the cornflour wash is supposed to give shine and thicker crust? Just water and cornflour?
Adrian, what usually is the % of levain in a recipe? Is this % based on the total flour or excluding flour in levain itself?Does more levain equal to faster rise? What is a "young" starter? If I omit the yeast totally, how much longer do I need to prove? Or if I leave the shaped baguettes to prove overnight in the chiller, will it yield better results?
In the above recipe, can I change to the figures in bold for better flavour/texture?
120g levain (50% water, 50% flour) 346g
210g bread flour 97g
3/4tsp yeast omit
113g water zero because all the liquid is in the levain (or maybe another 20g to make it 70% hydration)
1 1/2 tsp salt same
I saw the Pierre Nury's bread. Looks really rustic and mouth watering! Just wondering also, instead of making the stiff levain, can I use the liquid one I have in the fridge? How do I make the conversion?
Still on the topic of levain - is it true that I can use levain in place of any starter/sponge?
Do these breads make good sandwich breads?
Hello angiechia and welcome to The Fresh Loaf community!
I agree with the other suggestions that your baguettes didn't get enough steam in the oven.
When I was viewing your baguettes and noticed you asked how I steamed my oven.
Here is a reference to my first post and some photo's of how I steam my oven with microwaved towels. The terry bar towels become very hot and steamy by rolling, water soaked and microwaving the towels and placing them into a pan and pouring a little boiling water about half up their width. You'll notice the center of the towels become very hot when soaked and nuked in the microwave oven. If I want a little more steam out of them I just loosen them up a little with some long prongs. I have used different type pans to contain my towels while in the oven. Lately I like using some old saved aluminum pie pans because I don't worry about the water staining them. I double the pans for extra strength and you do need to be careful and not overfill them with water. Any pan you like to use will do. You'll get the idea from the link and modify it to suit your baking steaming needs. You should have continuous during your pre-oven and baking and little left over after you remove the towels from the oven..for a facial or clean up your counters with them. The deeper bread or cake pans work nicely and you don't have to worry about any water splashing about.
It's been a while. Here is the first post. Just click on it.
Oven Steaming - My New Favorite Way
SylviaH
Hi Sylvia
thanks so much for the very clearly illustrated link. I tried that, and did get a better coloured crust. Did see lots of steam from the tray of towels as I remove them from the oven.
I find the crust to be rather hard though. I am sure it's got to do with my oven temperature or the formula. How does one get a crisp crust, rather than one that is so hard that it hurts the teeth to bite the bread?
Hi Angiechia
Actually the wash should help with some colour and shine and it will also help with a lighter crisper crust as it stops the fierce heat of the oven from setting the crust for just that little bit longer which also allows a bit more oven spring to take place. it is also a great help when wanting to use poppy or sesame seeds as they stay stuck to the bread.
You will find about a teaspoon of cornflour in about a cup of water and brought to the boil,
if you dont need a cup full then just use a 1/4 and microwave it, but beware it almost always bubbles over.
kind regards Derek
thanks Derek. Have yet to try this. Possibly this is the solution to my earlier question? On achieving a crispy and not hard crust?
the Wonder Bread of France - Made as cheaply and as fast as possible, usually using yeast and chaep low gluten flour and no SD. So, they are great for sandwiches but, if not SD, they will go stale very fast - 1 day is all you get. Making them SD with a long cold retard, (36 hour txfarmer method) is the way to get them to have much better flavor / taste and keeping quality - and still great for sandwiches. My favorite baguette though is upping the the whole grains to 20% and the hydration up some too, and using David Snyder's San Joaquin Baguette method.
Sylvia's steaming pans are Pyrex pans half full of water with a rolled up kitchen towel in the. You can either heat them in the microwave till boiling or put them on the bottom rack of the oven 25 degrees below your preheat temperature. If you are not usuing a MW then the pan can be anything,
I use 2 of sylvia's steaming pans and 1 of David Snyder's lava rock pan that is also half full of water and goes in the oven at the same time -never heated that in the MW though.
Happy Baking
Nonetheless, we prefer baguettes made with yeast. I bake a 67% hydrated 100% AP flour baguette. I begin with a 100% hydrated poolish using 1/4 of the flour, and 1/8 tsp of yeast. I let that ferment 8 to 12 hours at room temperature. I retard the final dough at 54°F for 15 hours. The poolish, and long, cool bulk ferment develops a deep "wheaty" flavor we love. Doesn't help the staling though. They are rocks after 24 hours. However, they freeze wonderfully, and refresh beautifully in a 375°F oven for 5 minutes. The long bulk fermentation also help develop open crumb.
For sourdough baguettes I just shape sourdough dough--also cool retarded--into baguettes. They too have great flavor but not the same wheat flavor we enjoy in the poolish, yeast version.
Some baker's, including me, add diastatic malt powder to the dough mix: 1tsp to every 360g of flour. Doing so ups the amylase enzyme in the flour making more sugar available for gas production, and browning crust. I don't use it in the sourdough version.
I also use Sylvia's steam making method, but in long, narrow cast-iron trough-shaped pans made for steaming in BBQ grills.
Happy Bakeing,
David G
Hi Dabrownman and David
thanks for your insights. I tried making the baguette again last night, taking suggestions here to up the hydration, omit the yeast, and also using Sylvia's steaming towel method. Since I made so many changes, I don't know what went wrong when the bread did not turn out nicely.
Intended only to up hydration to 70%, but calculated wrongly and used 75% instead. Dough was sticky and unable to shape it. So just do free form loaf. However, after more than 5 hours (after shaping), I was unable to see any significant increase in volume. I just baked it anyway as I was so tired ... should I have left the dough in the fridge and baked the next day?
When you retard the dough in the fridge, do you bake it straight from the fridge the next day? Or do you still have to bring it to room temperature first?
I have some other questions too ...
1. how much levain can be added to the bread? Is there a cap, or does more levain equate to better flavoured/textured bread?
For eg, if the recipe calls for 120g levain (100% hydration)/210g flour/140g water. Can I change to 400g levain/70g flour and no water added in final dough?
2. how does one determine the amount of yeast and salt to use? With the direct method, we usually use between 1 to 2% of both the salt and yeast. But when sourdough is used?
3. can the sourness of the bread be controlled? For eg, if I try a recipe and finds it too sour for my liking, how can I adjust it/time/temp to reduce the tang?
Sourdough is so interesting to work with, but it can quite baffling too! Seems to be so many unknown and mysteries surrounding it.
1. Sourdough looses some of its abilities to built structure. I wouldn't use more than 50% of the rye and 33% of the wheat in the preferment. 33% of the flour (270g) would mean: 180g sourdough/180g flour/110g water.
2. Salt: In relation to the tatal flour weight of the final dough. No matter if the flour is added directly to the final dough or was in a preferment. Usually it is about 2%.
Yeast: When sourdough is used, no yeast is needed. You just let the dough ferment until it is ready. This will be longer (sometimes up to a day) for the direct method; or very short for high amounts of sourdough (sometimes just 40 minutes). Adding yeast just to help with the rise for higher amounts of sourdough is simple: Just add up to 1% of yeast (or up to 0.33% of instant yeast). The taste and "anti-stale" is already developed in the prefermented sourdough. With lower amounts of sourdough/direct method it becomes quite tricky, as the yeast speeds up the fermentation process without adding much to taste or "anti-stale".
3. A lot of this is already posted in this forum. In general: The warmer the preferment more "aroma" (lactic acids). The colder the more acidic acid (the sour one). Also: Wetter->milder; dryer->stronger (and needs longer). This is why 3-step-builds use different temperatures and hydrations in each step, to built a mixture of all desired tastes and flavours.
And of course: The more preferment, the stronger. Preferment can be "overprooved" and therefore built more tang and aroma, as later will still be added more flour (food for the microorganisms) for the final rise. Even more though if you want to add yeast to the final dough.
Adrian