Sourdough struggles
Hi All,
I've been reading the Tartine book for a few months and am still struggling a bit with my starter and bread. Can someone point out what I may be doing wrong?
When I began the starter, it was just living in my kitchen until I had the 'predictable 24 hour cycle' where it would rise and crash and I would feed and purge it. I then moved the starter to my fridge in order to elongate the 24 hour cycle in to something that fit in to my schedule a little better.
When it comes time to bake, I take out the starter, take some (half-ish?) and feed it with new flour and warm water and put it in a new container in the kitchen. I feed the other half and put it back in the fridge. When the new starter is growing well (I'd say it has nearly doubled - maybe 8-12 hours later), I begin the process.
Flour, water, a little salt, and the wild yeast all go in to a bowl according to directions and ... things never seem to happen. The dough doesn't rise. It takes on a weird shiny color and smooth texture that gets me excited but it's like the yeast is just dead. I deal with it...stretch and fold or otherwise manipulate the dough as instructed but don't get any feedback from the yeast.
Last night after working the dough for a while I decided to fold and shape it. I put it in a bread basket, covered lightly with plastic wrap, and put it in the fridge for an overnight rise. It never rose. This morning I put it in the oven anyway. The bread kind of exploded as I thought it would and it did spring a little bit, but it's an awkward looking boule that's spewing from its sides.
I'm guessing that my timing is off. I likely have to let the yeast sit by itself a little longer, right? It feels like I've tried that but gotten no better results, but maybe I haven't.
Does anyone else keep their starter in the fridge? What's your procedure and baking gameplan?
Thanks!
I keep my starter in the fridge. I usually take it out the night before I want to bake and feed it, then feed it again early the next morning and start using it around lunch time. I always feed it twice before baking, just to get it really going.
I am wondering could it simply be that you are just not leaving the dough to rise for long enough? If your starter is rising the yeast must be there.
However, before you put it in the fridge how long was it taking to rise to its peak? Most people keeping one on the counter have to feed twice a day. If yours was taking all day it could just be a very slow starter.
Also, a loaf exploding in the oven suggests under proofing. I have had to learn to hold my nerve as I under proofed consistently for ages. I think it was Mini Oven that really helped me, telling me that is almost impossible to over proof sourdough. I leave it far longer now.
The temperature in your kitchen will have a huge impact on the speed your starter and dough rise. My kitchen is very cold and nothing would happen unless I put my dough in the oven with a jug of hot water.
Just to add if it takes your starter nearly twelve hours to double, I think it will also take your dough a similar time.
I'll start again tonight and see how things change. I'll definitely give it more time. I figured I just wasn't being patient enough.
I keep my starter in the fridge, with that said I have noted that putting the fed starter or any dough in the fridge appears to stop the yeast in its tracks (as in no rise).
So what I do when I make dough is take the starter from the fridge, discard about 3/4s, and feed it something like 1:1.5:2 (starter:water:flour) however on some occasions it might be 1:2:3 or even 1:3:4. I then put the fed starter in the utility closet, on top of the water heater ... this time of year it averages 80F in that room. The starter normally doubles in 4 to 6 hours.
(on a side note an issue may be your starter ... you may want to feed your starter more ... in other words use a larger proportion of flour and water compared to starter)
After the dough is together and kneaded/folded, I will put it in the fridge overnight for a cold fermentation ... during this time I have noted the dough does not appear to rise *at all.* For the longer ferments (21 hours) I'll take it from the fridge after 10 or so hours and let it spend another 10 hours in the coldest room in my house (about 60F). I'll then shape it into a ball and let it rise for about an hour in the utility closet, after that I do the final shaping and let it rise again in the utility closet for 2 to 3 hours. In the final rise it does "puff up" a little bit but nothing like I see with commercially available yeast.
I recently got a copy of Reihart's BBA and I noticed that with his SD recipes he uses starter *and* instant yeast. Interesting.
Good luck-
Dave
Some comments
" I put it in a bread basket, covered lightly with plastic wrap, and put it in the fridge for an overnight rise. It never rose"
Putting dough in the fridge retards it of course and prevents or greatly slows down the rise. The idea of this is to "buy more time" so the yeast and chemical reactions take place but the dough doesn't rise much and this develops flavour. The main rise would come AFTER you take it out of the fridge and leave it for an hour or more in a warm environment.
"Flour, water, a little salt, and the wild yeast all go in to a bowl according to directions"
Quick question for you here. When and where are you putting the salt? Is it going into the water and yeast mix or is it going into the dry flour? It sould be the latter. Never put salt directly in with the yeast.
Cheers
Thanks all for the comments.
Last week I made a batch that worked out a slightly better because I gave it the starter a second feed and a little more time. Today I'm working on another batch and am giving it even MORE time.
The timeline was as such:
Yesterday at 8am: take starter from fridge and feed it. Take half and put it in a vessel for today's bread.
Yesterday at 8pm: discard about half and feed starter
Today at 8am: add flour, water, starter, a little sugar, and salt (salt not added during first mixing phase). Cover and set aside.
Tonight around 6pm I plan to shape it and let it rise another hour or so, then bake it.
I'm excited to share the results with you all. Thanks for the tips!
This latest bake was shows a marked improvemet. The loaf looks as think it more or less should.
It still doesn't taste or smell very 'sourdough-ee' though. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
That is looking really good, you got nice oven spring there. I think there are loads of threads on here about getting a more sour flavour. Dabrownman, is probably the one you want as he loves sour! I think you can control the sour flavour with a number of variables, an easy one is to use some rye in your starter, but I think less starter also means more sour as does long, cool fermentation/proofing.
If it is tartine bread you are baking, then I think you will find if you follow the recipes that you won't get a lot of sour flavour, I think they are meant to be quite mild.