June 3, 2007 - 9:19am
Pan Siciliano with KAF Durum Flour (Pictures)
I use to bake P.Reinhard's Pan Siciliano with Semolina Flour ... Yesterday, whe I wanted to prepare a Pan Siciliano for Sunday breakfast I found out that I ran out of Semolina Flour. So I took Durum flour instead, as you know, basically the same - just more flour like.
I had to add 0.75 oz more (High Gluten) flour than with the Semolina flour to achieve the same consistency. The crumb was as you may expect less yellow but very moist and chewy-soft. The taste is excellent and I am tempted to say that I prefer this bread with 'regular' Durum flour compare to Semolina.
Pan Siciliano - Crust
Pan Siciliano - Crumb
BROTKUNST
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Very nice looking loaf, Brotkunst. I am definitely going to try making it that way. In fact I have some durum flour sitting here wondering when I am going to use it.
Susanfnp
photo presentation and graphic layout rocks! Very lovely!! I especially love the very simple layout and type treatment in the top photo. Very gallery. It makes me want to eat one.
Good job!
apparently your name is Pan Siciliano. I have to stop logging out then checking one more post before I go...Brotkunst, I'm very impressed with the total package. The artistry of the photos, the look of the bread, beautiful.
brotkunst. that is just gorgeous. And tasty, I'm sure, too!
Katie in SC
AnnieT wrote (here) :
"Brotkunst, I am so jealous! I made my second batch of this bread yesterday and it didn't look anything like yours! I used durum flour both times but didn't know about altering the percentage of bread flour. The pate fermentee was softer this time, and the crumb was very yellow and had only small holes. I'm beginning to think I don't proof doughs long enough, but the risen "Ss" were very puffy and when I poked one the dent remained, which is what I think PR says. I charred the first batch I made and really wanted to get it right this time - and then I saw your picture and went into deep depression. Not really, I'm a stubborn old woman and will try again, but I would appreciate any suggestions you could make. I love this site and feel as though I am learning a lot, thanks to all for sharing, A "
I replied:
"Annie, as I mentioned I used the KAF's Durum flour , not the Bob's Red Mill semolina this time. Since the KAF Durum flour comes less yellow the entire loaf is more white than yellow. Since you mention that your loaf was 'very yellow' I wonder if you are using the Durum or semolina version (semolina is the 'sandy' durum).
From what I have heard there are seberal different presentations of Durum flour and each would be quite different in there interaction with water. I just have experience with the two I mentioned and the KAF Durum appeared to absorb less water.
Also, I for the 'white' flour I used KAF's 'Sir Lancelot' High Gluten flour - Durum is very low in gluten, so the 'Sir Lancelot' makes up for part of the difference.
I proof the loaves overnight in the refridgerator. The Durum Flour (not semolina) appeared to have a more intense fermentation - all other factors being equal. I had to get up a littler earlier and baked the loaves straight from the fridge in the oven. One loaf was at room temperature for about 20 minutes because it proofed in a little cooler section in the fridge.
I pre-heated the baking stone to 500F, steamed and place the sheet on the stone for a total of 25 minutes at 450F. When I leave the door cracked open after 15 minutes I have to watch the loaves a little closer so that they would not get too dark. If you wanted the loaves with a slightly more crunchy crust I'd try 13 minutes at 450F with closed door, and 8-10 minutes with the door cracked open.
BTW ... I spray the loaves with water before baking, add the sesame seeds (plus Amaranth seeds if you like) and the spray a coat of extra-virgin olive oil over the loaves."
Thank you guys for your kind words - I enjoyed the presentation of the pictures and the bread as well .. actually only a tiny piece of the pictured loaf survived the famliy breakfast. Good that the formula makes three loaves (one of which I surprised a neighboor with before they got things ready for their Sunday breakfast)
BROTKUNST
Nice job. The crumb looks so creamy and tasty. weavershouse
Brotkunst, you are awesome.
Not only is the bread superb, your photo presentation is amazing.
If you look real close thru your computer screen, you might be able to see me bowing down to your mad presentation skills.
Wow, very nice...
TT
nudged me out of my lurking status. This looks absolutely wonderful.
I'm so happy to have stumbled in on this site.
Janet
Janet, glad to here that you 'came out of the dark' - especially when you credit me with turning on the light :) There is much to gain by 'talking bread' with others who share your interest in baking bread. Everybody gains from asking and discussing even the most obvious and simple questions, so don't hold back - ask and share.
BROTKUNST
P.S If I am right to assume that 'lurking' would come from being new to baking bread - let me suggest an array of very good books that explain much about the 'mechanics' of baking, the chemistry that evolves into art with every loaf you'll bake. Search for some of the book threads, especially the books from P.Reinhard, M. Glezer, D. Lepard, J.Hamelmann and R.L. Beranbaum are regarded to do a good job to explain the details behind the scene. In my opinion, the best first bread book is P. Reinhard's 'The Bread Baker's Apprentice' and M. Glezer's 'Artisan Baking Across America' has the best presentation of the formulas, with a very handy summary upfront (Actually I adopted that layout for my own baking notebook).
Another advice, if you like to hear: work with quality ingredients, the right tools and -most valuable- keep notes of the loaves you bake. A notebook, with date, description of what you did and what you noticed when you bake your bread will in my opinion greatly shorten your learning curve.
I never thought I'd keep records of my breadmaking but since finding this site I have a big folder going that includes photos. The photos are such a big help for many reasons including the times I take bread out of the freezer that I forgot to tag and have no idea which it is. I go thru my photos and find out what I'm about to serve. Most of the time I don't cut into bread that's just baked. It goes into the freezer unless I need a loaf for the day. A tag marked with it's name is a big help.
Welcome Janet, hope you have a great time joining in and baking and sharing. weavershouse
I appreciate any and all advice! Actually I have been "making bread" on and off since high school, some xx (number greater than 30) years ago. Although, "making bread" was simply adding (by specified volume, of course) ingredients, mixing, kneading, rising, shaping into pans, and baking.
And I wondered why my bread was never very good! Then, thanks to this site, I discovered so many more facets to bread baking! I bought J. Hamelman's Bread and have been reading it like a good novel. I am now baking "out of the pan". And I've added Reinhard's book to my Amazon wish list.
So, thanks to all of you who have provided some inspiration - and thanks for the welcome.
Janet
<>Janet - welcome. I am guessing by your screen name you are from Maine? If so, there are a few of us that are big Maine fans here, and a few actually from Maine as well. (I'm in upstate NY but wish I were in Maine...). You probably already noticed the Maine references on the Seawater bread posts here. If not from Maine please just disregard my ramblings and enjoy the site!
Brotkunst - awesome Pan Siciliano, I love that recipe. You have the best crusts and I am wondering what type of oven you use, and I see from your write-up you use a baking stone and steam.
I have a nice thick baking stone but my crusts still tend to get too brown on the bottom before the tops get that nice and dark...we love dark crusts in my family, though. Beautiful work!
That is a work of art, Brotkunst. Truly, a gorgeous loaf of bread and beautiful photo. I really love those dark crusts - so rich looking and I love the flavor as well. Wish I could have had a bite of that one.
Janet - welcome to a great site!
Um yeah, how are you getting such a dark crust? That is one of the last great problems I've been having not only on the Pan Siciliano but other breads, I can't seem to acheive that carmel color. I read in BBA that you need to have some sugar left in the dough in order for it to carmalize so maybe I'm just over-proofing.
Mountaindog, Zolablue, LilDice
The crust is not a mystery and easily reproduced in your oven.
In my reply to AnniT I wrote:
"I proof the loaves overnight in the refridgerator. The Durum Flour (not semolina) appeared to have a more intense fermentation - all other factors being equal. I had to get up a littler earlier and baked the loaves straight from the fridge in the oven. One loaf was at room temperature for about 20 minutes because it proofed in a little cooler section in the fridge.
I pre-heated the baking stone to 500F, steamed and place the sheet on the stone for a total of 25 minutes at 450F. When I leave the door cracked open after 15 minutes I have to watch the loaves a little closer so that they would not get too dark. If you wanted the loaves with a slightly more crunchy crust I'd try 13 minutes at 450F with closed door, and 8-10 minutes with the door cracked open.
BTW ... I spray the loaves with water before baking, add the sesame seeds (plus Amaranth seeds if you like) and the spray a coat of extra-virgin olive oil over the loaves."
The dark(er) colour is really developing rather rapidly once you crack to door open. It's probably good advice to keep an eye on the loaves during those minutes. In those final 5 minutes the loaves are pretty much done and you can take them out while they are still golden or you wait for any desired darker tan. Just be attentive because in the drying phase the sesame seeds go quickly from 'rosted' to 'burned'.
My oven is everybody's electric Whirpool model, nothing fancy. I bake the loaves directly on the baking stone but I don't think that silicone, a baking sheet or parchment paper makes a difference as far as the top crust is concerned.
I assume you also spray your loaves with water (I use destilled) before you add the seeds. After adding the seeds I spray extra-virgin olive oil over the loaves - not too much, just a thin layer. All this is done just before the loaves go into the (pre-steamed) oven.
I hope this helps. If not, just get back in touch and we can work this out for sure.
BROTKUNST
I live in Seattle, Washington. I cannot find durum flour here! I really do not want to order it from KF because of the shipping costs. Does anyone know where it can be purchased within a reasonable distance?
Jerry,
to me it was not worth the hassle, time and gasoline to search all over town for the durum flour (I called several places). If you buy also other flour from KAF you'd be surprised how inexpensive the s/h is. I am more than certain that they don't make money on the shipping charge. You can order somewhere around $100 worth of flour and ship it for $10-12 (That's a huge amount of flour, about two very heavy boxes). Lower quantities ship for $6.95 . Some people spend that almost on a cup of coffee. However your time and your expenses to get the durum flour in a store has to be weight against the shipping charge.
BROTKUNST
I believe that durham flour and chapati flour are the same thing. Chapati can be obtained in almost any East Indian Food Market - at least this is what I've been told. I've used it with good success. To all: if this information is not correct, please advise.
Trish