October 15, 2012 - 9:34am
Is it practical to maintain the Full Sour (of 3 Stage Detmolder Process) for future use ?
I use a 100% rye starter and produce tasty, but not notably sour, rye + wholemeal loaves and I am considering trying the Detmolder 3 Stage Process to increase my output sourness and flavour. The procedure is lengthy and necessitates critical temperature control.
My question is : Is development of Refreshment/ Basic Sour/ Full Sour stage mixes necessary for each bake or can a portion of Full Sour be maintained (e.g. refrigeration + feeding, as in the case of conventional starters) for future use ?
Share
Hi,
According to the originator of the process (Arbeitsgemeinschaft Fuer Getreideforschung Detmold eV) the 3-stage process gives you an optimum sour for about 30 minutes. This method is thought to be for an automated process and is (at least in Germany) mostly used by bakers who have automated multi-fermenters.
In order to accommodate smaller bakeries the Arbeitsgemeinschaft devised the "Detmolder Einstufen-Fuehrung" or Single-Step process. This is fairly widespread among the professionals (and I am using it at home for all my rye breads), it gives you an optimum sour for about 8 hours, once it reached maturity and you chill lit.
Most of the rye breads in Hamelman's "Bread" use this method without calling it by name.
You can find the original documents on Ketex' Blog (I posted links in some of my earlier blog entries).
To answer your question: In my opinion keeping the 3rd stage in the fridge only makes sense as initial starter for a new build.
Happy Baking,
Juergen
PS.: You can find some links relating to your question here:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28726/german-sour-dough-starter#comment-217424
Thanks, Juergen, for your definitive and interesting response - plenty to chew on !
As part of my quest to bake authentic German style bread (to rival Hopfisterei Munich products - no harm in being ambitious), I plan to try baking using the Detmolder Single Stage process, that you outline, starting with the 60/40 formula.
I have the following questions :
1. Have you tried substituting wholemeal for the white flour ?
2. What manipulation of the dough (kneading, folding etc.)is recommended.
3. Given the high rye content and hydration, is it practical to form free-standing loaves ?
4. If yeast is omitted, what is time extension factor should be expected for proofing the dough (assuming 26 deg.C) ?
Regards,
Wade37
Hi,
I am glad you find my answers useful.
I usually use wholegrain rye for the sourdough build. Then I got a bit creative - using partly medium rye, wholegrain wheat, spelt, emmer ...
I also like mixing in wheat preferments - wheat sour or biga, or both.
Are you baking for yourself or commercially?
1. Have you tried substituting wholemeal for the white flour ?
Yes, works well - need a bit more water.
2. What manipulation of the dough (kneading, folding etc.)is recommended.
I only use my hands and don't have experience with commercial equipment.
For a dough with 60% rye I mix as long as it needs to get it all homogenous. I usually do one fold after 20 minutes
3. Given the high rye content and hydration, is it practical to form free-standing loaves ?
Yes, if you use banettons to prove them
4. If yeast is omitted, what is time extension factor should be expected for proofing the dough (assuming 26 deg.C)
Bulk proof is about twice as long, final proof remains about 1 hour.
I am sure you will produce something great to chew on!
Juergen
To answer your question, I am a relatively inexperienced, strictly sourdough home baker, not commercial. My reference, as an aim, to rivaling Hopfisterei output was in terms of quality & flavour, not production !
I have attempted the 60/40 recipe but it is evident that I must improve my handling of wet, sticky doughs (had to resort to using a pan) and management of my rye starter (resulting bread acceptable but with little sour tang).
Thank you again, Juergen, for your advise & encouragement.
as long as you remember that it is NOT wheat!
Keep your hands wet when shaping, and don't wait for any gluten development - the 60% will already look like cement. That's the way it is.
The Detmolder ryes aren't too tangy. I would recommend you get ting familiar with one formula and then start playing with the parameters, one at a time.
It is good to feel in control.
Cheers,
Juergen