Best stage to use the starter

DMS is right... you actually do NOT need to use your starter just as its "peaked" - i.e. at the point it has risen as far as it will and is ready to collapse (this, assuming you are using a fairly loose/liquid starter - i.e. 100% hydration or higher, in other words, you are adding an equal amount of water and flour by weight each time you "refresh"/feed it).  If you're using a stiffer starter then it will act a bit differently (stiff starters have "peaked" - aka are "ripe" - just at the point they have reached their maximum increase in volume and may not actually collapse the way looser/wetter starters do).

Okay.. so here's what I have learned:

1)  Everyone says "always use starter at the point it peaks" or soon before/after - say within 20-30 minutes or so of peaking - so it will have maximum leavening power.  True, it does have max leavening (rising) power at this point. BUT... remember, your starter is living organism - bacteria and yeast, in simplest terms, are living on (i.e. eating) flour and the byproducts of flour yeilded by the yeasts "digestion" of the flour, and the yeast is giving off CO2 gas which is the actual leavener of your bread.  As long as you don't kill it (i.e. starve the little yeast beasts by not feeding them for too long a period - typically DAYS, not HOURS! - depending on the temperature you keep your starter at), it will continue to grow and will spring back to life when more food (flour) becomes available.

2)  So... why do you NOT have to use at the point its peaked?  Simple, when you add the starter to your bread recipe you are mixing the starter with, uhh... yup... flour.  Thus, it will start to "grow" again the minute you incorporate the starter into your bread mix (as long as you have not killed it by starvation/lack of food for too long!)

3)  Okay.. so why would you not want to use a starter when its at it's peak and thus has maximum leavening power for your bread?  Well, remember, the marvelous thing about SD is that, unlike breads made with "store bought" yeast, its a "slow" process: i.e. the fermentation process (and thus leavening/rising) with"wild" yeasts occurs more slowly - primarily as a result of the lower yeast counts in homemade "wild yeast" starters vs. active/dry commercial yeasts you buy at the store.  The beauty of this slower fermentation is that it allows for much fuller flavors to be developed as a result of the longer fermentation/rising times, during both the first or "bulk" fermentation/rising, and the 2nd or "proof" fermentation/rising - which occurs after the loaves are shaped.  I won't get into the chemistry - suffice it to say that the primary "flavor components" (aside from flours, etc.) of SD bread comes from lactobacilli and acetic acids, which take hours (not minutes) to develop and, generally speaking, develop more fully the longer the fermentation process takes.  Do a search on the TFL site for "retarding" or referigerating" doughs and you will see that many of us referigerate our doughs to lengthen the fermentation times (either at bulk or proof or both) to develop more complex and flavorful breads.

So... long story short, one of the ways you can lengthen fermentation time (aside from adjusting temperature and/or the amount of starter you use in your recipes - and, generally, less starter is better!) is by using yeast that does not have as much leavening power and thus will take longer to get the job done.  FYI if you want sweeter breads, use your starter BEFORE it has peaked; if you want more sour bread, use it after it has peaked.

4)  In my search for truly sour SD (which I love as much as I do a good sweet SD bread) I have learned that using old starter - sometimes even a day or two AFTER it has peaked (and left at room temp for that day or two!) is one of the best ways to achieve sourness - for two reasons:  A)  the starter itself gets more acid and thus more sour the longer you wait (within reason) after it has peaked, and; B) the dough takes longer to ferment as a result of using the less active starter.  Combine an "overripe" starter with refrigerator retardation and you can achieve truly sour SDs.

5)  As far as what recipe to use, I strongly suggest you choose one simple recipe, and make it over and over again until you get the hang of making SD breads.  Write down what you do each time.  Use a timer and a digital scale! Its really hard to understand what is happening and why (i.e. why your bread rises great or poorly, has little of lots of "oven spring", tastes sweet or sour, has an "open crumb" or a closed one, etc,) if you keep changing recipes or flours or methods.  Susan's "Norwhich" SD bread is a good one to start with.  Her recipe can be found at: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/08/my-new-favorite-sourdough/.  If you like a bit of whole wheat in your SD as we do in my house, use my "Kuta" SD recipe on this site (search for "Kuta" on the TFL site) or go to:  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27567/kuta-sourdough-whole-wheat-tweak-susans-norwich-sd for my tweak of Susan's bread (which is just as easy to make).

6)  Most beginners overproof their breads.  Remember to keep track of the time FROM THE MINUTE YOU ADD THE STARTER to the flour when you are first combining the ingredients for the dough, to the minute you take the bread out of the oven.  You will be amazed at how easy it is to take more time than you realize (we all do when first starting out as we are not yet organized... Where is that pan?  What container should I use to do my bulk fermentation in?  Where's the oil for the containter.  Oh God.. I refrigerated the flour and it's still cold...  better let it come to room temperature first;  where did I put that damn roll of parchment paper [smile].  

7) Also... understand that SD bread making is mostly about fermentation (and temperature).  Get those down and you are 80% to making great loaves.

Good luck and have fun!

Lee

This just illustrates how very different our experiences can be.  From my own work and in the course of teaching others, I found that the concern and difficulty was often the exact opposite of what you describe.  That is,  most would under proof their loaves due to impatience or worry that they were letting the process go on to long.  Commercial yeast brings about a certain predictability in proofing times but sourdough can be just about anything dependent on the qualities of any unique starter.  I suspect ambient temperature may play a signficant role,  in our differences, as I usually teach classes in the  cold Winter months and I am guessing that you are dealing with much warmer temperatures.   The concern of most students was  that they did not bake a brick but instead produce a lighter loaf.   This is where the importance of a full strength starter, at its peak, comes in.  For those who might continue baking with sourdough, a complete comprehension of the entire sourdough/fermentation process is the next logical step.  However, a complete understanding of that process,  before a loaf is ever baked,  is too much for most to comprehend without hands on experience simultaneously.  Without the real experience, much of the science simply does not make sense....of course there are exceptions to this as we all learn a bit differently.

In my own baking, I aim for a process from start to finish that takes 16 plus hours.  This means that I carefully control the strength  and amount of the starter, the temperature at mixing and then the cold retardation temperature.

We could easily be talking about drastically different ingredients and recipes and that too would account for the differences we are experiencing.  Most of my bulk fermentation times are in the 2 - 3  1/2 hour range but I do make a Vollkornbrot that has a bulk time fo 20 minutes.  Not all breads are the same.

Finally for a baker new to sourdough,  I stick by my advice of using a starter that is near its peak in order to benefit from the potential rising power of that starter without having to wait for an eternity for that process to take place.  Within that recommendation, there are countless variables.

For Nepakshi, I hope that this exchange proves educational and helpful.

Happy Baking,

Jeff