Everything is too crusty!
Hello all!
Having just pulled yet another crusty loaf out of the oven, I'm wondering what I might be doing wrong. You see, it seems that whatever I bake, be it cake, bread, muffins... and whichever recipe I follow, I always get a crust that is a little thicker than I would care for. This is not only the exposed part of the bread (or muffin etc), but also the part that is inside any pan I might use.
The other possibly related symptoms are that the things I bake are never as light as I would like, and drier than I would like too. They are not complete disasters, quite edible (according to others too) but I'm not proud of them at all.
I'm using a fan assisted electric oven, I do everything by hand, I live in Northern Ireland where it is not especially humid or dry, hot or cold. I use instant yeast (though in other news I have had a starter growing in my kitchen for 10 days now and I can't wait to try it!) or brand new bicarb if I'm making soda bread, strong organic flours... I don't have a thermometer for my oven (apart from the built in dial), though I suspect I should probably invest in one as soon as possible. I don't use steam, though I'm also thinking I should probably try this next time.
Mainly I was suspicious that it really is EVERYTHING I make that has the same thick crust issue, which either points the finger at the common factor of the oven, or me! What do you think?
Thank you so much in advance...
You could increase the moisture in what you bake. Also, if you use a convection setting on the oven decrese the temp a little. The hot air getting moved around will also wick away moisture quicker. Steaming the oven will create a humid enviroment during the baking process and help prevent the outside from drying out to quick and forming a thick crust. Try one of those three things not all at the same time though. See which one works best for you and gives you the results your looking for.
Really? I don't agree with this at all. My experience has been that steam definitely increases the thickness and crustiness of bread. Steaming does help with oven spring though.
For thinner, softer crusts:
- No steam!
- Make sure your oven temps are correct.
- Bake at lower temps (under 400F/204C) for slightly less time, if you're leaving the fan on.
- Brush crusts with butter after baking.
You may want to try turning off the fan, if you have that option.Hi Sheps!
Tell me more about your oven. Especially the dial where you can control the fan or type of bake in your oven. Fan assisted ovens bake faster than non-fan ovens at lower temps because they move the air around. If you cut back the time and/or the temp you will come out better for most recipes unless they state temps for fan assisted ovens. So if you haven't tried it, do so. For normal 200°C bake, a 175°C or 180°C fan assist is enough. What you're describing sounds like too hot too long with drying out effects. :) See more on TFL site search (upper left corner of page) try: Fan assisted oven or convection oven.
Mini
I agree with Mini Oven the fan makes for more efficient heat transfer so things will heat up quicker at a given temperature, the same as wind chill just in reverse. We use to bake muffins in a convection oven and we first did it we were really disappointed that they did not have that mushroom top but were pointy, reducing the heat by 25 or 30 F brought things back to normal. Different oven will need different temperature adjustments as they don't all move the air at the same speed.
Gerhard
about the steaming issue. Depending on what kind of bread you bake, steam in the beginning of the bake and the right temperatures are the main factors for creating a crisp, but thin crust.
If you want a semi soft crust, you have to enrich the dough with dairy, oil or sweetener, and steam is optional.
If you are baking a white, lean bread (like baguette) you need high heat and steam, and, probably, even have to leave the bread in the switched-off oven with the door slightly ajar for 5 - 10 minutes after they are done, so that the crust doesn't soften too soon.
If you are baking a whole grain, farmer's loaf type, bread, you need steam and high temperature in the beginning, and then have to reduce the temperature in one or more steps (falling temperatures) to achieve a thin, but crisp crust.
Without steam you are much more likely to get a thick, hard crust, and it definitely makes it worse if you don't know your oven's real temperature. I have enough experience with this, when I started baking bread I didn't know anything about steaming, didn't control my oven temperature (it was way off!), and had thick and hard, if not rubbery, crusts every time.
Happy baking,
Karin
I think it depends on the kind of bread being baked. The OP is noting that
This means that Sheps is having an overall crust formation, which suggests to me that the OP's issues have more to do with oven temp and baking times than whether steam is there or not. I don't think the problems will be solved by adding steam.
Would you steam cake or muffins when baking? I guess it can be done ("steam bake"), but usually that's not the case, personally not sure why, but common sense to me suggests that it has to do with crust formation.
Some of the softest, thinnest crusts I get are the ones on low-temp, steam-less enriched dinner rolls (baked between 350-375F). I'll have to run some more of my own tests with those rolls and some lean doughs as well. Experimenting is fun!
No, I like my muffins crisp - definitely no steaming there! I meant it just for bread.
Since I sell my breads and bake a lot (in my regular oven) I learned much by trial and error.
Karin
I have to agree with you. Crust formation on muffins and cakes does point at oven temp. I think Sheps is baking at the recipe given oven temp with convecion, which would be to hot. Lowering the temp or turning off the convection would help. I made some blanket statments that covered baking bread, quick-breads, and confections.
Hello all
Thank you so much for all your suggestions and words of wisdom! I feel I've learnt more than I originally asked :)
I'm going to assume that it's a temperature issue, and try lowering that as suggested. If that doesn't improve things I'll move on to the other options...
I'd like to buy an oven thermometer anyway and I've just been looking at them online. It seems that the cheap ones might be just fine but some online comments suggest they only last a few months and aren't that accurate anyway. I'm happy to spend a bit more if it's going to be with my for years and is accurate; would anybody be able to make a recommendation please?
In answer to your question Mini my oven has just three dials; one is temp up to 250 degrees C, one is an analog timer (which is supposed to turn the oven off when it reaches zero but sometimes sticks at zero with the oven still on, and it's only as year old!) and the main dial switches between off, grill, light only (which for some reason also turns the fan on) and two misleading oven settings that could both be interpreted as the fan setting! Both of these settings seem to do the same thing, and the fan is always on at the same speed with both. Just a cheap simple oven really...
One final thought... when I'm kneading I usually find that the dough gets too sticky several times and so I sprinkle more flour each time. This brings me to Manna's suggestion about experimenting with increasing the moisture content - if I'm adding too much flour while kneading I'm effectively lowering the moisture content right? So perhaps I should also try increasing the moisture, or at least avoiding adding too much flour. I have lots to try tomorrow!
Thanks again
Sheps
My experience is once you find yourself "kneading in" too much flour, adjusting ingredient contents won't work to fix the issue. It's virtually impossible to know exactly how much flour you're adding or exactly how much water to add to compensate.
I've only ever found two things that work:
If the dough is sticky when kneading you may be to aggressive with the process. Here is a KAF link to one of their test kitchen staff talking about making bread. The part on kneading is at 4 min into the video.
http://bit.ly/tZCDcf
Hope this helps.
Thanks Manna and Chuck!
That's a great video; I've watched many but that is very clear. It seems I'm an 'aggressive kneader' ;-)
Great... off to the kitchen again for me!
Yes, that switch
The one that controls the fan. Can you see more detail in the settings or pictures? Sometimes a line is thicker than another indicating top heat or bottom heat or both top & bottom heat with the fan. Important to know just what the indicators mean. Still got the instructions?
Ah no, sorry Mini... I obviously didn't describe it very clearly....
It's a rotary switch, and it has five settings including off:
1. Off
2. Light only (plus fan)
3. Grill (plus fan)
4. Oven (plus fan)
5. Oven (also plus fan)
... so essentially what I have is a fan that is always on, unless the oven itself is switched off. The fact that the two oven settings are identical, though with different symbols, suggests to me that it was perhaps designed to use the oven with or without fan, but that it doesn't actually work that way. I have no instructions as we did not install it. I've already searched online and can't even find a manual that way. As I say... it's just a simple cheap oven.
I think the answer is that I must accept I will always be using the fan setting, and to invest in a good thermometer to confirm the temperature, as well as all the other good suggestions given. Thanks again all.
My oven has a lot of settings also a fan that goes on with the light, it is a cooling fan blowing the heat above the oven foward into the room but it is not the convection fan that is mounted inside back center of the oven. It only rotates when a fan symbol is on. So we may be talking about two different fans here. (and two different fan symbols?) >Gee wiz, hail is coming down outside.<