November 2, 2010 - 3:15am
Does anyone use large amounts of starter from the fridge?
Hi,
recently I came across a different method of using sourdough starter: rather than using a small amount of it in the preferment use a large part of it (20% with respect to flour) straight from the fridge, without preferment of any kind, regardless of the "age" of the starter (meaning even if it's weeks old).
I'm curious to know if anyone ever uses this method and how the bread comes out. I never did because I feared I would get an excessive amount of sourness, that I don't like.
Thanks.
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I bake every 10 days or so using 290 g starter from the fridge combined with 880 g of flour and 19 oz of water. I knead and let sit at least 12-15 hours before shaping for baking.
After I set the bread for its long rise, I feed the starter 150 g water and 150 g flour and let that sit two to three hours before returning the jar to the refrigerator.
The bread is tangy, but in the way I like. However, what is sour to you may not be to me.
Actually it may be the quickest way to have a tangy bread without resorting to 2 days in the fridge. When my friends and I switched from a solid to a liquid starter we noticed a "loss" in sourness, that in my case was a blessing but not for several of my friends. I'll have to make a test.
Thanks for sharing.
I do this regularly - keep as tarter of perhaps 150 / 160 grams, which I use to begin a loaf about every two weeks.
To make a "new" starter, I add 60 grams water to the bowl the starter has been in and stir it to mix with the last remnants of the starter there, pour it into a clean bowl, add 100 grams bread flour, stir, cover and leave to become active. It then is put into the fridge until next time.
It is a method that I have found extremely effective - and economical! Not too sour at all and makes delicious bread.
Andrew, does it mean that you have you 160g of the starter in the fridge for 2 weeks, then take it out and put directly into the dough?
What is you recipe? How long does it take to ferment? And the resulting bread is very little sour?
Actually, I know people who mainain their wet starter in a similar way. But could anybody explain, why everywhere here and in most book I have read, a fresh starter is always recommanded?
What about all enzymes, dead yeast and bacteria, waste metabolites... It would be great if Debra Wink could add a commentary but any explanation is welcomed
zdenka
I take 150 g of the starter (which is nearly all of it), add 150 g water and 150 g white bread flour, mix , cover and leave overnight. This is really active by morning.
In the morning I add 400g water, 670 flour (usually a mix of spelt, kamut, rye, wholemeal and white bread flour), 10g salt and mix - this forms the dough, which I usually give a short knead then follow a no-knead method.
It has worked well for several years following this regime.
While it may be preferable to use fresh active starter, there are alternative methods. Once you have fed your starter culture at room temp for a number of days and it is double or triple in 6-8 hours, you are ready to try storing a mother culture.
I have found that a firm feeding provides the starter all the food it needs for a 2 week stay in my fridge. I will mix 20g of old starter with 80g water and 110g flour. After mixing well, it goes straight away into the cooler. On any day after that up to 14 days, I can remove 1 heaping Tablespoon (about 50g) and use it to inoculate dough or a preferment. The procedure detailed above will also work where in you would use a larger amount. The key is to use the stored starter to provide the inoculation and let it become active overnight on the counter first.
Eric
I had in the fridge a starter that I fed more than a month ago. It didn't have a pleasant smell, but I used it anyway straight from the fridge into a dough for a challah.
Overnight the dough doubled (it also had a pleasant smell), so this morning I reworked it with some cinnamon and raisins, then put it in the fridge. If cinnamon doesn't kill the yeasts (fingers crossed, I had too many mishaps of this kind) I'll bake it tonight.
I do something similar. I maintain 100g of starter in the refrigerator. Before baking, I usually build the 100g to whatever quantity I need (+ 100g) and allow to ferment overnight. 100g is removed from the preferment and refrigerated before dough is mixed.
I never discard starter; and I find that 100g can be multiplied quickly for a sameday bake without an overnight preferment if kept warm enough.
AC
use starter straight from the fridge. The largest amount for a single bread is 195 g for my Feinbrot, adding then 95 F/35 C warm water. The only difference (in my opinion) is time - with a cold starter the fermentation takes longer.
My starters, whether rye with 100% hydration or wheat (75%) are refreshed about once a week - when they are used up. But I had starters, unfed, much longer in the fridge. They develop a dark skin and some liquid might separate, but then I just take the discolored skin off with a tablespoon, and use the rest (advice from R. Bertinet).
Karin
Thank you for all your comments
OK, that is what I do regularly - keeping the mother starter in the fridge and then take a small part and build a fresh starter. But nico mentions "without preferment of any kind, regardless of the "age" of the starter (meaning even if it's weeks old)."
I understand well, you can take the final amount of the starter needed in the recipe from the starter in the fridge that has not been fed for a week and use it DIRECTLY in the dough.
As I have heard about it from people around me (who smile at my method I learned thanks to TFL and PR), I do not know how to explain them what is better. It is true taht I have never eaten their bread....
Karin: do you still use the refrigerated starter that has been in the fridge for a several days without adding any fresh flour?
I apologize for the confusion.
zdenka
No, Zdenka, that is something I would do only if I had a whole lot of starter that was only a few days old (up to 3). Usually I keep only 1 big yogurt bowl of each wheat and rye starter in my refrigerator.
Karin