How have you learned to make Artisan Bread?

Hi, Todd.

Welcome to TFL!

It seems you followed one of the precepts we often preach to new bakers: Choose a small number (like 1 to 3) breads and make them over and over until you've mastered them and understand the ingredients and techniques. It works.

I baked bread for a while some 35 years ago but quit after a really good French bakery opened here. About 3 years ago, I was missing a couple of my favorite breads that i couldn't get locally - Jewish Sour Rye and San Francisco Sourdough. So, I got a couple new books and started baking again. My first efforts were ... not good. I searched for more information on the Internet and found TFL.

TFL was and continues to be a source of inspiration, information and support which has accelerated my progress by orders of magnitude. it's a great community. My library of bread books has also grown, and I continue to learn from and get challenged by them. Hamelman's "Bread" is one I've learned tons from, both the basic science and the making of some types of bread I wouldn't have otherwise learned to make.

I've never taken a bread baking course. In fact, I've never watched a professional make bread or even made bread with another dedicated home baker. But, that will change in about 10 weeks; I'm enrolled in the Artisan I course at SFBI (San Francisco Baking Institute). I hope this will be the first of several course I take there.

So, that's my story. Now, tell us more about what you are baking these days. We love to see photos, too.l

David

His book The Handmade Loaf was the main reason why I got involved in bread baking on a more "serious" (for lack of a better word) way

http://bewitchingkitchen.com/2009/07/15/the-handmade-loaf/

I agree with you that picking one bread and trying to perfect it is the best way to improve - his White Levain bread, made over and over, set me on the right path in the bread baking journey

Apart from his book, at the risk of sounding too cheesy - I have to thank the folks here, their patience with "newbie" bakers is incredible, and the amount of knowledge available here, hard to find anywhere, books included.    

Hi Todd, and Welcome to TFL!

I started helping out in a clandestine wholefood business after graduating from University in 1987.   Helping out led to becoming a founder member of a workers' co-op to run the business, and gaining experience as cook, baker, financial director, and floor sweeper...and much more besides.

I crossed to NW England from the NE, with a year in Scotland in between.   Landed up working at Village Bakery, Melmerby, making 000s of Artisan loaves to supply major supermarket contracts all organic breads, natural leavens and using wood-fired ovens.   9 years on and stuck in the same business, which hasd been taken over, and changed drastically, I made the big move....

I went to College to become qualified.   Two years later had distinctions in all 12 subjects, and was already teaching.   Qualified as a teacher, and assessor 2 years on, got married and moved back to NE England.   I now lecture in Newcastle, and make bread at home too.   Just built a wood-fired oven, and about to put a couple of loaves through.

Inspirations along the way are too numerous to mention really.   I've worked with some fantastic people, and been influenced by a number of texts.   But, I've put the work in myself too.   I've loved studying, and am currently doing an MSc in Food Policy; graduate a year in Sept.   Hey, big up the Fresh Loaf too.   There are some inspirational peole on here too...many in fact!   And, I guess I should also mention the students I've nurtured along the way; a major source of inspiration.

As David said, tell us more of yourt story.   Can I wish you all the best with your business venture?   I'm sure your bread is as wonderful as it sounds!

Andy

Hi Todd,

Let me welcome you too to TFL ...

I was a software engineer for 30 years or so and got laid off in the BIG Recession almost exactly 3 years ago now. After looking - and working a bit - for a year I decided to follow a dream. I had always loved good food, and bread and baked goods in particular. I had always thought if I could do something else in life I might become a baker. From an engineering mind set I thought of how I could accomplish this dream. I decided to enroll in a culinary program at a local technical school - I wanted to gain some professional kitchen experience and food science at a cheap price from a legitimate and knowledgeable source. The technical school also was starting a Baking and Pastry Art program and I thought that may be a good resource too.

Well, I attended for a year and completed the one year Culinary Technology Certificate program and it has helped me a lot - have professional kitchen skills and I am ServSafe certified. Most of all I met and grew to know many students - most of whom were much younger but very inspiring. The majority of students were in there twenties and were and/or had been working in various food service related jobs for a while and were attending formal classes to better their skills and opportunities - it was nice to learn from them also. I did run into one obstacle at this school - the instructor who "ran" the baking portion of the current program and was heading up the formation of the new baking and pastry program.

Over the years I have participated in much formal education and I had never run into such a teacher or instructor. I am "legally" blind - 20/500 non-correctable in both eyes - and to say the least was not the typical student. To not focus on the negative side of this experience too much this instructor stated to me the first time we met - a phone conversation - that "I don't believe you can be successful in our program and I don't believe you belong here." I am not discouraged easily but I found her attitude toward me only got more negative when I enrolled in the Baking I course taught by her. Every cloud has a silver lining though - she did advise me to try and get a job in a real bakery and I did.

I worked 12-14 hours a week in a Great Harvest Bread Company bakery doing the scaling, mixing sponges, mixing dough and working production on the table. Although this was not exactly the kind of bread I was dreaming of baking I learned a great deal and the baker/owner was, and still is, very supportive. I worked there seven months and then took a break to visit my brother in Ann Arbor, Michigan where Zingerman's BakeHouse is located. It turned out that through my brother's contacts - he is one of there most loyal customers - I was able to arrange a seven day (8-9 hour days) working with the bakers at the bakehouse. Zingerman's Bakehouse is one of the finest artisan bakeries around and on top of that have an incredible business model too. The opportunity they provided to come in and "be an employee" on a short term basis does not happen very often and was a fantastic learning experience.

Prior to leaving for Michigan I had been working on setting up a more long term internship with a local French artisan bakery close to my home in NC - a bakery name La Farm Bakery owned/operated by Lionel Vatinet a Master French baker and one of the founding instructors of the SFBI and coach of the first US Coupe de Mond team gold medal winners. I worked there for seven months working full time. I learned much there - not just about baking but also the baking business. Running a bakery like La Farm - open seven days a week from 7 AM to 7 PM, a retail store doing breads, pastries, online business, wholesale business, classes, farmer's markets and wholesale to both restaurants and upscale grocery stores is a lot of work. It was complicated because the growth was happening very quickly and the organization was to say the least "not so good" - at the other end of the continuum from the Zingerman's BakeHouse operation. This experience truly opened my eyes as to how physically hard and time demanding being a successful commercial bakery operation requires. This internship ended this past March for me - sort of glad I was exhausted (worked four days a week for 10 - 11 hours going in at 11:30PM and getting off at 10:00 AM).

Since then I have been following TFL and learning a lot from many many people, reading various books on bread and baking more at home. I have also developed a couple of sourdough breads - a basic white and a 100% WW sourdough bread - for the Great Harvest bakery I originally worked at. The sourdough white has been selling for a month or so now - baked on Wednesdays and Saturdays. An also participating with NYBakers as one of 200 test bakers - a lot of fun.

Based on my experience over the last couple of years my goal is to eventually open a "small" wholesale micro bakery and possibly do it with a wood-fired oven. I don't want bread to "break me" either financially or spiritually - I want baking to always be enjoyable and educational - may be this is unrealistic but I am currently not willing to compromise my goals.

I wish you the very best of good fortune in your endeavors - nothing but success. I am sure we would all like to hear more about your business plans and journey - current size, type breads you plan to offer, market served, current equipment, etc and most of all your dreams of where you would like to see your business go.

Good baking,
Ben

Thes stories are fascinating and inspiring. What further amazes me are the people who post what look like ideal loaves here registering for baking classes; I would have though Dr Snyder, Shiao-Ping and Susan NP from Wildyeastblog.com and many others, had already reached the pinnacle of bread baking. I would love to hear how these expert bakers feel the classes change their breads.

Twenty five years ago I started to bake when I came to a small town on the Oregon Coast and had no access to good breads. I think Bernard Clayton and a small food processor were my first tools, then The Village Baker found in a post-Christmas sale. Dan Lepard's book, 'The Homemade Loaf' converted me to hand kneading and the combination of TFL & J. Hamelman have continued my education.

Patsy

I was always a very contrary person, and being someone that enjoyed cooking I got into baking simply because it was cooking, but wasn't cooking. And neither did I want to bake desserts; that would be no different from all the other baking enthusiasts I knew. So I turned to bread, as I knew not a single bread baker. Mind you this was all in high school.

Soon after entering college and getting a kitchen of my own I started baking bread with advice I got from www.discusscooking.com, a forum veteran there then directed me to TFL as I was asking questions beyond the scope of that particular community. TFL in addition to the aid of a fresh copy of The Bread Baker's Apprentice launched me on the course of bread baking.

Now I've completed coursework in baking and pastry arts, and am working in an artisan bakery, and that in and of itself has taught me volumes.

--Chausiubao

Hi Patsy,

Wonderful as this virtual community is at TFL, and amazing as the information is recorded by experts such as Mr. Hamelman, there is something extra to be learnt from baking classes.   And, as a teacher, I hasten to add, that my truely most beneficial role would merely be to facilitate this:   spending time with like-minded people, all focussed on the fundamentals of learning even more about something they are all already passionate about...no matter what their current level of expertise.

it doesn't always come off, and, Ben, I'm really sorry to read you had such a dreadful experience with your teacher...not on, I suggest!   However, the very best courses , from a teacher's point of view, run themselves.   The students simply gourge themselves on what's on offer, and from there they run the show!

Be part of something like this, and your baking will reach new levels.

Sorry, I've jumped in here; the people you mention are true experts, and I should let them speak for themselves.

All good wishes

Andy

Hi There Blue Skies,

I started about 10 years ago with a bread making machine and a packet of white pre mix bread flour. Then about 2 years ago I wondered what would happen if I removed the dough once it was kneaded and let it have a 2nd rise in a loaf pan. Result was a nice bread with the shape I wanted. I added milk, oats, rye or cornmeal etc for variation of flavour. I now started using my bread machine for "dough only".

About 8 months ago I bought some ciabatta bread wondering what it was having heard about but not eaten before. Liking it I googled Ciabatta and found "Artisan Bread" and this site. My first recipe I found that seemed "simple" enough was Jason's quick Ciabatta. I then proceeded to a 24 four hour starter for a ciabatta loaf.

After a lot of reading and absorbing as much as I could from this "bread web site family" It was here I discovered there is flour and there is flours and found confidence to try a sourdough starter. I tried and failed 3 times. Then I read Sourdoughlady pineapple juice and flour starter. BINGO.....I had a winner.

I now have two different "mother" starters in the fridge. One made on Germain mixed grain flour and another made on wholemeal and white flour.

The rest they say is history...............Thats my start.

I learned to bake bread from my grandmother, who baked sourdough rye bread without commercial yeast. She baked her bread in a wood fired oven, which was the "community" oven in the midle of town. It's a little building, where the women of the town gathered to bake bread and cake on a Saturday , and chat a lot of course. Later on in life I forgot about bread and was busy with my education. After I imigrated to the US, I started baking whole grain sourdough bread, got a mill and developed my own recipes. I also wrote a  step - by - step instruction book which I sell. I got diagnosed with Hashimoto last Summer and can not bake with wheat or gluten containing grains anymore. You can believe me that I cried over it for month. I just had opened my business, teaching whole grain sourdough baking and was invited by the local college culinary chef to teach bread baking classes.

I am basically advertising here, which nobody likes, but I am sitting on 80 books which I wanted to sell during baking classes. My students and I had so much fun, I even traveled in NC and demonstrated the art of sourdoug baking. All my students can bake sourdough bread, it's a method where one doesn't have to measure and weigh much and still have a wonderful product. I loved my bread, well should not start talking about it again because it makes me cry.

I spent the 70s living in a cabin with no electricity. We grew, threshed, ground our own wheat and I baked in a wood stove. Sometimes we used the yeast from the wine we made. Those were excellent breads!

I figured out early on that long cool rises produced superior breads. I do wish I knew back then about the stretch and fold technique...it would have saved me a lot of kneading!

What I'm grateful for is that I learned to bake bread by developing my touch/instinct.

I grew up with a Mom and Grandma who made homemade bread, so I knew a little.  Last year a friend gave me some sourdough starter, and that got me started.  I have kept it going, took one basic class, and seek every opportunity to bake; I give away a lot of bread.

I am a "lurker" on this website; haven't made anything yet that I am proud enough of to share.  I especially love and want to learn more about whole grain breads.

I would dearly love to take a class in artisan baking someday.  It would have to include baking with a wood-fired oven.  I saw the video "Bles D'Or" and it almost made me cry.  There is something magical about bringing the grain from the earth, making the dough, baking it and eating it comunally.

When I moved to Maine in 2001 I had baked a lot of cakes, but never seriously bread. Living in Bangor where there's a great bagel shop, but otherwise only supermarket shelves full of "Wonderbreads", I started baking my own bread out of shere desperation.

With a sourdough recipe from a French cookbook I just tried and tried over and over again with different flour mixes, different temperatures and baking times, creating many extremely chewy "bricks" on my way, until I finally was able to produce the regular German everyday sourdough rye (Feinbrot) I was used to from Hamburg.

Fascinated by "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" I ventured into the realm of white French and Italian breads and learned using cold fermentation and steam (improving my German bread by a quantum leap, too).

From there, with more time at hand, I baked more and more enthusiastically, also whole grain breads, and re-wrote all my German bread baking recipes. Since 2 years I have a home processors' license and bake regularly for a local natural food store.

In rural Maine there were no bread baking classes (now I give some) - I had to teach myself by reading baking books and a lot of trial and error.

I'm proud to say that when I last time visited my hometown Hamburg I found my breads superior to most I have had there.

A few years ago I got a copy of the no-knead bread recipe from the New York Times. Here's how my very first loaf of bread came out:

I'm glad it turned out so well!  I learned that you can make bread as good as the best bakery bread, from your own home with your bare hands.  I began to bake more and more until we couldn't eat it all, so I was giving it away to friends, neighbors, and co-workers.  Then I thought I'd start selling a little, just to cover costs.  I briefly looked into making it an official business, but my homestate of California is incredibly strict about food processing facilities, and I didn't have the time, money, or interest in renting a space and buying commercial equipment, just so I could continue my hobby.  So I sell to neighbors by calling it "an ingredient donation" and have a pretty good client base who have weekly bread subscriptions.  I have eight breads on the menu and change them a few times a year.  For me, I'm just about at the "sweet spot", where I get to bake multiple times a week, all my costs are covered plus some, and I get to work on new recipes or continue to tweak my own (c'mon, rustic sourdough!).  For me, I love being the kitchen and experimenting, and bread gives me incredible satisfaction, whether it's seeing my daughter gobble up a slice of molasses flax wheat bread, or handing out loaves of ciabatta at dinner, or seeing people close their eyes as they taste a homemade hamburger bun for the first time in their lives.  Thanks to the great people on TFL and the books by Reinhart and Hammelman, I've come from my first no-knead bread to a real rustic sourdough without any formal training.   

-Peter

http://psoutowood.wordpress.com

What a nice story!

I trawled for various recipes and I always saw bread recipes.  Most of them stated 4-6 cups flour, punch down, blah blah.  One time it would turn out well, other times it was a brick.  I was always frustrated.  Then I went on the great Quest For Pizzeria Thin Crust Pizza!  Found a poolish style dough that worked well, bought a Fibrament stone and that made it even better, but I always wanted to bake bread.  Especially the style of hoagie buns that a local pizza shop bakes.  Loved their bread, but the ingredients weren't always top quality.  And any bakery or grcoery store around here that does bake 'artisan' bread thinks that it has to hace a hard, crispy crust.  So I trawled the internet for tips, stumbled on to this site, found Peter Reinhart's Bread Baker's Apprentice in my library and it was like an epiphany - I finally discovered the reasons why I used to be so inconsistent - it was *me*, it was the recipes!  When I weigh my ingredients rather than go by volume I get consistently excellent bread.  When I chuck it in the fridge overnight it developes that sweet, nutty flavour.  I don't have to have a rock hard crust!  And by rearranging procedures a bit I finally found a way to make those hoagie rolls using PR's poolish ciabatta recipe.

I lurk on this site and rarely contribute because most of you have already done all the things I do.  :)  A few years ago I bought a Nutrimill and settled on a recipe for my basic sandwich bread, mostly whole wheat, some KA bread flour, some corn meal, barley syrup, olive oil, salt and yeast.  I finally have a pizza dough recipe I settled on and I'm still working on techniques.  My favourite baguette recipe was found on TFL - Anis Bouabsa's recipe.  I recently used that recipe with less water and made some bagels - they weren't 'proper' bagels, but my family liked them.  Trying to make whole wheat bagels, but it's not working as well.

Anyway.  That's been about the last ten years or so.  It's been about four years since I discovered this site and the BBA.  I'm contemplating tackling Sourdough next.  :)

Traditional Chinese cooking does not involve baking, so I never even used my oven until the end of 2008. Around November, I wanted to make a cake for my mother's birthday (Feb the next year). Not just any cake, the kind soft spongy chiffon cake that Asian bakeries sell. I got online, checked my favorite Chinese baking websites, forums and blogs. Learned and practiced, by Feb, mom got a big chocolate chiffon cake (with whipped cream roses and all), and I have fallen in love with baking.

My husband and I don't eat sweets much, but we both love bread, even more so than rice. That's my motivation to learn to bake bread. Chinese breads are similar to Japanese breads, soft, spongy, slightly rich. Love them but want something more. Then I got the book "Artisan Bread in 5 minutes A Day". A lot of people here don't like that book, but it aims at getting newbies started baking artisan breads, and does it very effectively. The day after I got and read the book, I went out and bought a baking stone and mixed up a batch of dough. The third day, I baked my first loaf. That was Spring of 2009, since then artisan breads have become a serious hobby.

-Raised my starter following BBA method, it had its first birday last Apirl, still bubbly and strong

-Participated BBA challenge and finished it earlier this year. It's like "Artisan Bread 101" for me, experiencing different types of breads one by one.

-from TFL, learned so many great techniques, formulas, and bread knowledge, including S&F, various baguette formulas, the art of fermentation, how to score, how to steam, etc. Just like the Chinese baking sites, TFL continue to be my source of new knowledge and inspiration

-Started my own Chinese baking blog (http://blog.sina.com.cn/txfarmerying), introducing "western" style artisan breads and desserts to Chinese audience. The blog has reached 1 million hits last week.

-Last but not the least, I finished translating "ABin5" to Chinese back in May, now waiting for its release in China. Funny how life comes full circle!

Even though I am completely self tought, I do think classes and prefessional instructions are valuable. I am registered for a SFBI weekend workshop at the end of this month, very looking forward to that!

I am a software engineer by day, and love my job, but I often day dream I can apprentice at a bakery, so I can score hundreds of baguettes every day! I bet that will improve my skills!

led me to bake bread. My mother was Swedish and made good Swedish rye, other breads and her specialties, Butterhorn rolls and Swedish Coffee Ring. When she passed away when I was 18, and my older sister in Germany, I had no choice but to learn. My Dad actually was a very good cook and he would usually make the meals and I would do the marketing, make breads and desserts. He was a young boy in a large family of a Lutheran Minister and wasn't old enough to work in the fields, so he helped his mother in the kitchen standing on a stool. I think it is funny that he once told me men are good in the kitchen because recipes are like box scores. I never undterstood the obsession with the stats and can see what he means how now the men and women present the recipes in the ratio and percentages of hydration, etc. The formulas are much easier to follow than an actual recipe and the hands on experience to know the feel is so important. My mother had a brother who loved to bake and sent her recipes and one was from back in the 60's he had won a Blue Ribbon at the fair for his French Bread. I am sure it was quite unusual in Iowa at the time. I still have those neat hand written letters with recipes in her old cookbooks. It is fun to learn what my Grandmother and mother knew about "make sponge of..." which I never undertsood until now.

I became the person that had to bring these things to family events and still am expected to bring the butterhorn rolls, a rich butter and egg dough similar to Challah. I bought a bread book by Beth Hensperger quite a few years ago and began baking more when I got a Kitchen Aid mixer. I then much later stumbled upon this site and other Artisan bread recipes, and it had never dawned on me that I could bake good Arisan bread in my oven at home. It certainly is not like that many of you people make, authentic and on a wood stove, but my family and co-workers are quite fond of my strange obsession. I have to bake something until I get it right and make the adjustments that I need. The crows love my flops. My best first bread is a Cooks Illustrated Rustic Italian which uses the stretch and fold. The steam and oven temp were all new to me, but that is one I feel pretty good about as a "go to" bread. I am into my sourdough now and have to expand on to rye and wheat recipes. I have always loved to bake, but recently made muffins for a few weeks until satisfied with my basic recipe. I am also a good gourmet cook to a point. My son is a Chef, but I think I hold my own pretty well, especially with sauces. I love making desserts and just bought David Liebovitz' new book, waiting for it to come!!! Yay! My dogs love it too! MY bread is a work in progress as well all are.

That is so fascinating! I intend to check it out! I had some good luck scoring this week (with sourdough). I have tried lots of different knives and a razor, but Sunday, I grabbed a serrated tomato type knife (looks like a small serrated fish fillet knife). Wow! I got nice cuts that opened up well and I had good control. Silly, I know, but it has frustrated me so. Andrea or Andy

What an incredible dialog "string"!  Here's my story:  I had baked challah weekly for years.  When we moved up to "wine country," I contacted my cousin's wife, who was beginning a commercial venture.  She was baking flatbreads and has since gone big-time.  She had started a bread-bakers' group (which didn't last too long unfortunately), and I brought my challah to my first meeting with them.  She said she'd swap techniques with me, teaching me sourdough if I'd teach her challah.  When it came time for sourdough, she gave me a lump of starter--and that was the start of it all!  That starter "family" lasted 3 years--until I froze it when going on vacation.  It died!  (Guess I didn't have the right technique--suggestions welcomed, as another vacation's coming up!)  So I started my starter again, using Maggie Glezer's recipe in "Artisan Baking Across America" (my first bread book).  It worked beautifully (here I am 2 years later w/ it's progeny)--and I've been baking "artisan" sourdough just about every week, sometimes plain, sometimes w/ olives, sometimes seeded, boules, epis, batards.  I graduated to Hamelman's "Bread," which has been a handbook for technique for me.  I've given breads away to friends and have decided to keep this wonderful, passionate "hobby" just that!  (Yup, I thought about going pro, but since I recently retired and now have a grandchild--another source of delight--who needs the hassle?)  I just began baking savory crackers (Reinhart's newest challenge, too!)--rosemary/olive oil/pepper; cheese/walnut coins . . . just the beginning!  Now, because of a friend's incredible bread, I've discovered fresh yeast and found a lovely bakery in Healdsburg that's willing to sell me a pound of it!  So I just baked my first (chocolate-cinnamon) babka--omigosh!  I viewed it as a trial run (a good idea in general I think), but it was amazing nevertheless.  Of course, TFL has been a wonderful on-line community and classroom, and I love the pictures and videos that people incorporate.  Now I just have to figure out how to include pictures of my own.  Any suggestions?

Joyful Baker

Hi Joyful Baker 

I am with Blue Skies totally humbled by all of the tremendous giving people on this site. The encouragment and advice is wonderful. I have little bread advice to give but I can tell you how to get pictures on the site. I use picassa to save my pictures then resize them(I think I used 640 pixels) and save it to desktop. Then compose my comments and click on the tree icon in the top of the comment section click on the image url browse box at the end of the row. Then  load in the top line and choose file. that will take you to your computer to choose your picture. you will then see your picture in the list of files. Click on it and then click on insert. Good luck. I look forward to seeing your creations. I too started out making challah and am going on from there. 

What an interesting thread.

I'm a home baker and make a loaf or two per week.  Nearly all of my information about bread baking comes from books, magazines and TFL.  Here is my list of sources and what I learned from them:

The Betty Crocker Cookbook - Standard straight dough white bread.

Mother Earth News (Magazine) - Susan Sikse's recipe for oatmeal bread. "THE BEST BREAD RECIPE IN THE WORLD"

Organic Gardening and Farming (Magazine) - The sponge method (preferment) for making 100% whole wheat bread and rolls.

Wisconsin Public Radio - This is where I first heard about the NYT Times no-knead bread and how to bake it in a Dutch oven.

Jeffrey Hamelman's book "Bread" - Here I learned the importance of measuring ingredients by weight rather than volume, how to use baker's percentages, how to shape and score free-form loaves, and how to create a sourdough starter from scratch.

The Freash Loaf - Using a cloche to achieve outstanding bloom and grigne.

So there is my list.  For me the most significant improvements to my bread baking came from learning about pre-ferments, measuring by weight instead of volume and using a cloche.

Prairie19