Rye starter and other experiements
I made 2 starters - one, "Manuel's" starter (rye based) from the Laurel cookbook; the other - based on the same proportions but as follows: 1/2 tsp yogurt (instead of milk), 1 cup ww flour, 1/2 cup bread flour, a granule (which is really more like 6-10 pieces...) of yeast.
I realise the yogurt has drastically different qualities than milk, but, eh, it was in the fridge... so why not? I'd been making the Laurel yogurt bread.
The rye starter is 5 days old and looks good - pancake batter consistency with some bubbles - but smells like vinegar.
The other starter (3 days old) has separated with about an inch of yellowish liquid on top, and it's runnier than pancake batter and seems to expand when stirred. However, it has a nice beer-y smell.
Can I go ahead and bake with them, just to see the result? Can you get sick from a bad starter?
The starters both, obviously, included equal parts water to the flour - ie: 1.5 cups total flour and 1.5 cups water...
Meaning... Sounds more like a overproofed poolish than a sourdough starter. A poolish is made from yeast and flour/water and allowed to stand 8-18 hrs. A starter is made without any yeast and conditions set so that the natural yeasts in the flour will develop.
Now with a few weeks, each will be a viable sourdough starter but both of them sound like the beasties in them are being starved to death because they ran out of food. Yes, you are making beer. Beer would be the by-product from the fermentation, very acid, waste product. You can flavor bread with it but you can't raise the dough very well. You've got to get the yeasts back to working again for you.
So now what you need to do is spoon some of the goop (about a tablespoon) off the bottom (alcohol floats so pour it off) of the starters and feed each adding a tablespoon or two of water and two rounded tablespoons of flour to make a wet paste. Do this every 12 hours for the rye... reduce to a tablespoon or rounded teaspoon and feed with at least double the weight of the starter with flour.
I would take a little of the rye starter and add it to the wheat starter to give it a boost. Just this one time. Reduce and Feed every 24 hours until it's active then feed every 12 hours.
After a few days of this and there is noticable improvement, increase the volume to bake with. No need to waste cups of flour. Good Luck!
Mini
Thanks so much - will try your method. PS - been keeping them at room temp, which is around 65-68 degrees these days.
How long after I make these adjustments til I can use them to bake? Or am I just looking for the right consistency and smell?
or park them in a warmer place? A few degrees more would be great! Yeasts like it warm. Too warm is also not good. 73-75°F is about right.
You could slip the starters into a heavy zip lock bag, leave just a little air and carry them around in your pocket to keep warm, opening now and again to exchange the gases and notice how their aroma changes from "wet flour" to "all things wonderful and promising." I wouldn't do this all the time but it just might help them for the next few days. Don't worry about the nights.
The starter will be rising within the 12 hour period and it will be bubbling, slowly but active and smelling sour and fruity, nutty or something along those lines. The yeasts you started out with have all but died and have been replaced, stir (squish) a couple times a day and see how it is transforming. Get to know your starter and watch how it thins as it matures, it should not separate. Keep in mind that you have two different starters and they will act a little different. The rye may double but more than likely expand only a little but thin out, the wheat may double or even triple before it falls back on itself to do it again. There is a cool video Ryeaskrye made showing time lapse here with two such starters. It's called "Just for Fun."
Keep feeding them and I think they will let you know... Try one on the week-end with just a small loaf and see if it rises. You can also test it with a feed of 1:5:5 (S:W:F) and see what it does in 12 hours. Ryeaskrye has a cooler room temp. starter so you see, this would be a good guide for your starter as well.
Mini
So I did this:
spoon some of the goop (about a tablespoon) off the bottom (alcohol floats so pour it off) of the starters and feed each adding a tablespoon or two of water and two rounded tablespoons of flour to make a wet paste.
Then I put them in the sun for an hour... it's not very hot out, maybe 67.
But I'm confused about this part:
reduce to a tablespoon or rounded teaspoon and feed with at least double the weight of the starter with flour.
So should I be adding less and less of the water/flour paste? Or that, plus extra flour? If I put in flour "double the weight of the starter" that would be 3 cups...?
So far, they seem mildly improved... I hope this works! Love the experiement! Thanks for your help!
.
That means you have a choice... choose a tablespoon... or use a heaping teaspoon (it's a little bit less than a tablespoon, I stir with teaspoons so I use the teaspoon heaped up amount so I dirty only one spoon.)
Stay away from 3 cups! We want to save flour here! Twice the weight of the starter amount. One could be spicific but heck, the idea here is not to underfeed or grossly overfeed the starter. lets see... more choices... between 10 and 20g of starter, 20 to 40g of water and 20 to 40g of flour... (1:2:2 ratio S:W:F)
Glad to hear it's perking up! :)
Mini
The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book by Laurel Robertson:
The regular sourdough instruction, in this otherwise great book, is a bit misguided in its suggestion of the addition of commercial yeast. I would skip those particular instructions in this book.
Jeff