Need bagel aid
Hi, everybody. This is Dorothy in San Diego.
I am now on my third attempt at making bagels and this time I used KAF recipe which uses bread flour, a starter and bakes at 400 degrees F. Had a little trouble incorporating the starter with the rest of the recipe because there was so little water so I used my Z bread machine on dough cycle for about 15 minutes. I don't know if that was good or bad. The resulting dough was a little rough. Eventually after shaping and resting, I used a bagel cutter that I purchased at KAF as I have been having trouble with the hand made circles holding together once they go into the water bath. This KAF recipe calls for steaming rather than swimming.
Anyway, they taste great and are very chewy-that is not the issue. I wonder why I got so much oven spring and my holes closed us. Also, they are slightly overdone on the underside. I did one batch on parchment and the other on a silpat.
Dorothy, shuttervector@gmail.com
Timing is everything, when making bagels. Technique too. When forming the bagels, you have to "stretch" the holes a little bigger, in anticipation there will be some filling in when the dough rises.
If you don't want your bagels to rise much, there are at least a couple of things you can do. One is to limit the amount of time the formed bagels are allowed to sit out at room temperature, before boiling/steaming.
Boiling/steaming actually begins the cooking process, and the last phases of the yeasts' life cylce. The longer you steam them, the less yeast left alive to continue raising in the oven. Try steaming them, say 50-100% longer.
King Arthur uses the steaming method with the "Baby Bagels" recipe. They showed picture comparisons of the oven spring after 1, 2, and 3 minute steams. The 2 minute steam was optimal. This was in their blog for the recipe:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2009/01/27/bagels-for-babies/
"Here's something interesting: the first time I tried this recipe, I steamed the bagels for just 1 minute. The result? The yeast wasn't completely killed by that short a steam, and the bagels rose some more as they baked, resulting in very tall, puffy, un-bagel-like bagels (pictured on the left, compared to a bagel that steamed for 2 minutes on the right)."
Thank you MrFrost for your help.
Ah, steaming longer. I get it. The picture on the left was just like my bagels came out very pregnant indeed.
Dorothy, shuttervector@gmail.com
It seems to be a matter of knowing just when it is steamed enough. You don't want to steam it too long either, or you'll end up on the other end of the spectrum, with a shriveled looking bagel. As shown in the link.
very little yeast
long cold retardation
boil them cold
use bagel boards
Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com
Stan,
Thank you for your suggestions. Could you tell me what a bagel board is?
Dorothy, shuttervector@gmail.com
a bagel board is a fabric-covered pine or cedar plank that you wet down and put your bagels on upside down. after about 3 minutes in the oven, which is enough time for the upper surface to bake and set, use a mitt or a pair of pliers to flip the bagels over directly onto the stone to finish baking. the old-time NY bagel bakers used boards to eliminate the problem of flat bottoms.
Stan
Hi,
I see that you mention that the boards can be made out of pine, very interesting. This is the first time I have seen this listed as a possibility. It's interesting because where I am in Spain it is apparently nearly impossible to source red cedar at a reasonable price. Do you have any more information about different woods that are suitable for bagel boards. Thanks!
Rather than using a cutter or rolling them into a log and then trying to pu them back together again, try poking a hole in the center of the ball and twirling it. As mentioned by others, the hole should be larger than you expect (dough doubles, hole closes double). Good luck and keep up the good work.