October 12, 2009 - 5:54pm
Softer bread
I'm really want to be able to duplicate the really light and soft dinner rolls served in restaurants (Sante Fe Cattle Co and Ryan's Family Whatever come to mind). The're very light, very tender, and they almost melt in your mouth. I'm not sure if it's a technique thing, recipe thing, or combination of the two. My breads in general are improving but are still chewier than I like all the time. I generally shoot for 62%-65% hydration...
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Try adding vital wheat gluten or using high gluten flour, it makes a much softer bread. The first time I did a quick loaf with high gluten flour just for an experiment, I said "I just made Wonderbread!"
Vital wheat gluten will not make the dough softer. I find that soft dinner rolls include more sugar, milk, and butter to soften the crumb. Also mixing the dough is a longer gradual process with beating or mixing between additions of flour. There are so many recipes! Additions of cooked potatoes, and vegitables also soften crumb as well as pre-cooked (and cooled) grain/flour additions to the dough. The list is long. Wild yeast water also softens the crumb.
Mini
...will make a softer bread.
Water Roux Bread
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11745/recipe-japanese-style-sandwich-bread-water-roux-starter-sponge#comment-86136
If you search the word "Billowy" (upper left, here on TheFreshLoaf) you'll come up with the Cinnamon Roll Recipe. I'm sure it would make wonderful dinner rolls (without the vanilla and filling, of course). It has all the elements of a soft bread (potatoes, butter, eggs, buttermilk, sourdough) and the dough itself is very, very soft. In fact, it's kind of flabby to work with, but the resulting rolls are indeed "Billowy". Let us know how it works out, if you try it.
Unfortunately, she has long passed.I had a neighbor that used to make her own white bread and the texture was downright downy.I have never seen a loaf of handmade bread like it since. She was ancient when I was a teen and that was multiple decades ago. I wish I had talked to her more but I was young and silly but even at that stage of life, I took notice of her bread.
So I know it is possible-I just don't know how.I assume she did all by hand and with simple ingredients.Was bread flour available (or gluten by itself)back in 1960's? Could she have used some cake flour? I'm sure she used milk and butter-it was very tasty,too! May be worth some experimentation.
That's it. Lower protein (gluten) flour. I've had very good results using left-over tortilla flour for rolls. I've also been looking for wheat starch to do some experimentation of mixing my own flours.
It would probably be be just as good as loaf bread, but I have never tried it that way, only as rolls, go exactly as recipe states and your rolls will be fabulous, ;-))) qahtan
Yields 16 rolls.
18 oz. (4 cups) all-purpose flour
1 package (2-1/4 tsp.) rapid-rise yeast
1/3 cup sugar
1 tsp. salt
1 cup milk
4 oz. (8 Tbs.) unsalted butter
3 large egg yolks
In a large bowl of an electric mixer, whisk together the flour, yeast, sugar, and salt. Put the bowl in the mixer stand and fit it with the dough hook.
In a small saucepan, heat the milk and butter, stirring until the butter melts and the liquid is very warm, between 115° and 125°F.
Dump the warm milk-butter mixture and the egg yolks into the flour and mix on medium-low speed until combined. Increase the speed to medium high and beat until the dough is smooth and shiny, about 8 min.
(If you don't have a stand mixer, you can make a well with the dry ingredients, gradually add the wet, and then knead the dough by hand until smooth and shiny.)
Remove the dough from the bowl, shape it into a neat ball, and then return it to the bowl. Lightly grease the sides of the bowl and cover the top securely with plastic. Let rise in a warm spot until doubled in size, about 45 min.
Lightly grease a 9x13-inch baking dish. Turn the dough onto a clean work surface (no need to flour; the dough is soft but not sticky) and gently press to deflate. Using a pastry scraper, divide the dough into 16 equal pieces, each about 2 oz. (use a scale to be sure).
Put a piece of dough in your palm (again, no flour). With the edge of your other palm (curved slightly), press gently but firmly on the dough, rotating it repeatedly until it forms a smooth-skinned ball with a sealed bottom. Put the ball in the pan, sealed side down, and repeat with the remaining dough.
Cover the pan with plastic and let the dough rise until almost doubled, about 30 min. Meanwhile, heat the oven to 375°F. Remove the plastic and bake the rolls until they're puffed and browned, about 20 min. Serve warm.
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Qahtan, that sounds like just what the doctor ordered. I'm nursing a bad cold and need something easy to eat that will taste good. Thanks.
Eric
That looks like a good recipe to use sprouted flour!
Mini
I added a bit of sugar and a bit of butter (2% and 3%, respectively) to an otherwise unchanged 65% recipe. I split the dough into 1 largish 10"x5" loaf pan, 12 cloverleaf (I think that's what they're called) dinner rolls in a muffin tin, and one smallish round loaf baked right on the stone. The difference in the crumb texture in the rolls is wonderful, and I can't wait to see how it works out in the loaves. Thanks for the pointers, and I can't wait to surprise my wife with those billowy cinammon rolls!
Qahtan,
We devoured the rolls. You are correct, light and flavorful all the way. Just pull one of and enjoy. My first bite reminded me of the Portuguese sweet rolls.
Eric
I am pleased that you all enjoyed my rolls..... .;-))))
qahtan
qahtan I used to follow your posts with pleasure over on the Kitchenaid forum a couple of years ago when I first got my mixer. I'm so happy to see your expertise here! Love Karen
Thank you for the compliment........ Haven't done much baking etc of late, have Christmas cake to do soon... and made 5 1/2 pound mincemeat about a week ago.
Take care. qahtan
qahtan I made your rolls last night and they were to die for good! "If" I were to try this as a loaf, what would your oven temp, time, and internal temp recommendations be?
As I said earlier I have yet to use this recipe for loaf breads but intend to quite soon. But knowing me I shall dough up as per recipe and then weigh the amount for my tin/s.
Then when ready I will bake at again 375f until the top crust looks good, maybe about 40 mins, plus or minus, but this is purely guess work, trial and error. Sorry to be so iffy but most times I wing it. remember the loaves will brown quite quickly due to the eggs and milk in there. qahtan,,,,,
Psss, Two things I never do, is take internal temperature, and I never use bakers percentages, no matter how I try I just don't understand them/it. ;-)))
Thanks qahtan...I may have to experiment tomorrow and let you know :)
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14154/very-soft-white-breadmaybe-even-fluffy
I just posted this last night. This loaf is incredibly soft! I think the pastry flour makes a BIG difference.Of course, the butter,egg and milk help,too.It is sourdough based but could easily be converted to an all yeast with just a little experimentation. I converted it from the "Wonder Bread Clone" recipe that was on these threads a while ago-that was an all yeast recipe.
Have fun!