Horst Bandel Pumpernickel From the Hamelman Bread Book
Hi all, I've been making high percentage rye breads recently, finally got to the horst bandel pumpernickel this past weekend. Having read some of the warnings here, I was very stingy with the soaking water for old bread (I used some 100% rye) and rye berries. I didn't add any extra water at first after mixing everything together, it was actually pretty dry, with lots of dry flour at the bottom, so I added water one TBSP at a time, until the "dough" is a paste that felt like the 100% rye I made successfully a few times. Shaped and put it in the pullman pan (even double checked to make sure it's the right size), after 50 minutes it rose some, the top domed probably 3/4inch below the pan edge, not as high as I had expected, but I didn't want to over proof, so it went into a 370F oven for an hour, then 275F for 3 hours, then the oven is off. Everything went smoothly, imagin my disappointment when I open the lid this morning and found that the bread didn't rise at all in the oven, still the same dome shape. What could be the problem? The sourdough start I used has been reliably effective for months, and the starter dough rose and matured properly in the 14 hours. The instant yeast I used is from the same batch used for another bread, which rose successfully, what what can it be? Did I leave the dough too dry? Should I have baked it longer/at a higher temperature? I am eager to try again and get it right, but need to figure out what went wrong first! Oh, the high gluten flour I used is Sir Lancelot from KA, about 14% protein. Thanks!
rye absorbs significantly more water than wheat, which it needs to form the viscous polysaccharide gel that holds the CO2. without enough hydration, the gel simply can't become as elastic as it needs to be, and so you lose the rise.
i've found that 80-85% is about the right hydration level when i'm making 100% ryes. anything less than that and i don't get enough rise; anything more and the boule won't hold its shape on the stone.
here's an 85% hydrated 100% rye: http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1359101022/PictureID=40663712022/a=156993369_156993369/
Stan Ginsberg
www.nybakers.com
I actually kept track of the water absorbed by the old bread/rye berries, with those, plus the water I added during mixing, I'd say it's between 75% to 80%, so a tad low considering there're also 25% rye berries, 25% rye chops, in addition to the 30% pumpernickel and 25% high gluten flour. So I guess I need more water... Yout got a handsome loaf there BTW!
It doesn't sound too unusual to me. Wait a day (so it can set well) before cutting it and before judging. Patience! The waiting just makes it better...
I know that is easier to say than to do.
Mini
But I think this bread is supposed to fill the pullman pan, forming a square loaf... It seems that I need a bit more rise out of the dough. I am waiting to cut and see the crumb though...
The only thing I can think of is maybe you could have waited to let the dough rise more. There was instant yeast to handle it, but 50 minutes is a short time even for instant yeast.
Is that what you were thinking?
Mini
I am thinking more water and longer rising time. I may have over-corrected after reading all the "too wet" comments about this bread.
I have also made this bread and found that I did not have to add all the water called for in the formula but I still had to add a good deal of water.
Did you check your dough temperature when fermenting? I find dough temperature to be most important when making rye doughs.
When I made the bread it did reach the rop of the pan but not in the ends, I made 1+1/3 of the weight he specifies for a 3litre pan because I have a 4litre pan.
Thanks for the information, it's really helpful. My pan size is the same as the one used in the recipe, I will check the dough temperature next time, I was approximate it using a lamp etc., maybe it wasn't warm enough, especially with the lid on.