Newbie reconstituting a 4-year old dried starter (Carl's)
Hi All!
I have been lurking on here the past week trying to learn as much as I can about maintaining my starter. I got OT Starter in the mail in 2005 and, with all the best intentions in the world, never got to it until about a week ago.
I followed Carl's original directions for reviving the starter using just plain water, not milk or potato water. I wasn't expecting it to come to life, having been stored for so long, but I was pleasantly surprised to see bubbling and hooch on the 2nd day.
About Day 3, after reading The Fresh Loaf compendium, I decided to cut down the amount of starter I was working with to save on space and flour. I am now doing 50g starter, 50g water, 50g flour (Arrowhead Mills AP until I ran out, now on KA AP).
I feed at 11pm everyday. At about noon, it has bubbles but is not at all what I would call frothy or have the "Cappucino Effect" that people talk about here. At the feeding at 11pm, it has tiny bubbles across the surface with a very thin layer of hooch.
I tried to make No Knead Bread with starter using a recipe I found here: http://farmlet.co.nz/?p=191 I put a tape and marked the volume and, after 36 hours it had not increased at all, but the dough was very very sour and liquidy on the bottom. Thinking it unsalvageable, I then added flour and baking soda in an attempt to make The Wild Yeast's English muffins which ended up super tasty but leaden.
I have the suspicion that my starter may be all bacteria and hardly any yeast, but I have no idea how to test or fix that. Is it normal to take so much time to get Carl's starter to work? mean, his original instructions say that, after 48 hours, you should be ready to bake and can store it in the fridge! To repeat a previous posters observation: all his recipes include yeast. So is this lack of leavening normal? I really would like to make bread without active yeast if possible.
On a related note, I took a bit of the "discard" and used it to start a teff starter with which I intend to make injera. While not doubling, this teff starter does increase in volume and has a lot more tiny bubbles in the mix.
I would love to hear what you all think and would really appreciate the help. My head is swimming with facts now and I don't know which actually apply to me!
Soleil
PS: I am in New York City, if my location makes any difference
I have no experience with Carl's starter but sounds to me like the starter needs more food. Are you stirring the starter inbetween feeds?
Try reducing the 50g starter to 20g on the next feeding and tuck into the refrigerator in the evening for an overnight chill. Take out in the morning and feed again at 11am leaving it out. See if that kicks it up. Do tell what room temperature have you both?
I might suggest a 12 hour feeding schedule but there is something about refrigeration at this early stage that sometimes helps resurrected starters. Lets see where the first suggestion goes. The foam you are talking about usually doesn't appear for about 4-6 hours after feeding. After only one hour (noon) I wouldn't expect to see much going on.
Mini
Thanks Mini!
So you mean to tell me colder temperatures will actually help a new starter? I'd been trying to keep it warm!
I feed at 11pm (at night) so by noon, 12 hours later, there has been no sign of a rise, no smearing on the sides of the container and so on. Lots of tiny bubbles, though.
When I feed again the next day, should feed my 50-50-50, or 20-50-50? I'd love to know what it is that decides the proportions of starter to water and flour. I'm afraid that if I take out too much, then all that yeast I worked so hard to develop will go away..I guess this is unfounded? :) (Carl's original directions are 1cup flour and 1 cup water to the packet of dried starter, discard half, then feel 1 cup each of flour and water again).
I will try your tips tonight and report back tomorrow..thank you!
Thanks for pointing it out. Big difference! So your're feeding at night, and nothing notable is going on 12 hours later.... different problem. You might as well be starting a brand new starter then. I mean, the basics apply. Don't discard you're half way there. Continue with your feedings as is and then at noon, 12 hours later, put into the fridge until the midnight feed.
Mini
I probably shouldn't have named him before he was healthy :)
I wouldn't say nothing is happening, it certainly smells sour/sweet/yeasty..sometimes fruity depending on the time of day and, again, all those tiny bubbles that do nothing.
When you say don't discard, you mean I should keep doubling the starter without getting rid of half?
And also when you say "continue feedings as is", do you think I should stick to my original ratio or do 20g of starter as you suggest?
Thanks so much for your patience! It's feeling so close yet so far away!
discard, I mean don't get frustrated and throw him away. Sorry bad choice of words.
Stick to your 50g ratios for now. Be sure to reduce (discard) most of the starter and feed the 50g. We do want to reduce the bad stuff in the new starter. Yeasts and Bacteria that we want will have no problem with fresh food but if they have to swim through old food and dead bacteria to get to it, it could slow down their process. That is why we discard and feed fresh. (How would one live if one never took out the trash?)
Mini
Well, let me explain it. There are all kinds of stuff growing in your starter right now. Each bacteria and yeast has its favorite conditions and they are busy working out their order. Cooling the starter down raises the acid level in the starter just a wee bit or sinks the pH. Sinking the ph helps create favorable conditions for the particular yeasts and bacteria we want growing in our starter. They do need warmth too. And grow much better at warm room temperatures. Refrigeration was mentioned in the instructions so I gather that refrigeration may help in sorting out favorable conditions for some of Carl's yeasts or LABs or both so they get on with activating and propagating when you bring them back up to room temp.
Feeding Ratios. We don't want to underfeed our yeasts and bacteria and kill them off just as we don't want to overfeed so they take forever to do their job, namely reproduce, eat and expel CO2 gasses. Hootch (alcohol) is a sign of underfeeding but there would be lots of activity for that to happen, water & flour separating is a sign of overfeeding or little activity. So...
Have you read Debra Wink's blog?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
Mini
If you have hooch after every feeding, it's v.v. hungry. If I were you, for about 48 hours, I'd feed it every 4 or 5 [daylight] hours. it should come back to life. Believe me, you'll know it when you see it. Once it's active again, you can store it in the refrigerator until use.
So my starter has now risen about a quarter of the original quantity and has about 2 mm of the "cappucino" effect. After waiting a little longer, just to see what would happen, a thin liquid layer (seems like hooch) appeared underneath the foam. I am about to feed.
Feeling really encouraged by this!
Stick with feedings on the room temp counter top.
-Mini